Kearney Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 Mine hasn't got any guirt whatsoever, thankfully. HA! what you mean thankfully? The more guirt the better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 780z Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 And while I'm here, what's all this about the TT auto being a full second behind the manual to 60? I was just speculating about that, a bit tongue in cheek even.... in actual fact the first Supra tested by Autocar or Performance Car in one of their best handling cars of the year features back in the day was an Auto I seem to remember it was about 5.1 or 5.3 to 60 was one of the fastest cars around Goodwood just behind an NSX and in front of a 968 in the wet, it shocked the hell out of everybody who sniggered at it for being a Supra and second it being an Auto. ( I was only reading it again a couple of years ago... must find that road test ) Still it shows us that an NA is only a second or so behind a tt to 60 not that much to write home about......... I really am getting getting to like the NA.... Perhaps you're a 'manual snob' who likes to 'bully' auto drivers? Not at all ....some of my quicker cars are autos - family car RS6 completely standard ran 12.9 @ 110, daily driver 840i auto which is supposedly only able to do 60 in 6.6 - 7.0 secs demolished a V8 M3 manual from lights a couple of weeks back OK he was three up but still..... 780Z was an auto in a past life when it ran 11.15 @ 132 My auto TT aerotop did a 12.8 sec 1/4 mile a few years back with nothing more than a cat-back exhaust and a FCD. Stock N/A's usually run around 14's. That is why it is about time I bought a Supra and added it to the garage Again proof that in real terms tt is a second or so faster than an NA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 780z Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 Lads who honestly cares, like come on we are all grown adults. Its almost like "oh my dick is bigger than yours..." "Oh well I don't care... Mines got more guirt!!" Kearney, is your car 214 @ the wheels ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rays the roof Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 Getting a N/A Supra rolling roaded or any other car for that matter is just as valuable as putting a tt on the rollers, I just don't get all this nonsense about N/A 's being girlie cars and tt being the real man’s car, you can hardly call a rear driven car with 225bhp or so 'girlie' More tellingly a Jap spec tt auto will be making approx 180bhp / ton compared to 158bhp / ton for a NA manual, doesn't sound such a difference after all does it, moreover since when does a car with a 0-60 time of circa 6 secs look silly next to a car that can do it in 5 secs (manual) and more tellingly probably even 6 secs for an auto tt. As you should all know cars can be down on power for a number of reasons a rolling road session with an operator who knows what he is doing can reveal fuelling and timing issues with any car no matter what power it is producing. I would also like to suggest that putting a 500bhp Supra on the rollers is more dangerous to the car than running a 225 normally aspirated one, more importantly the 500bhp one is the one more likely to blow up. Touching on what some other posters have said about power losses I would be very happy to see 200bhp at the wheels of a N/A Supra which would equate to a real world flywheel figure of at least 240bhp taking transmission and tyre losses etc into account. Also from experience rolling roads are even more likely to give different readings from each other than the power differences to be expected from two identical spec cars. It is perfectly reasonable for any car owner to want to know what power his car is making and I find it laughable to suggest that it is irrelevant what an NA car is doing because it should be obvious, absolute twaddle......... As far as I am concerned anybody can turn up the boost of a turbocharged car to produce massive amounts of power and quite frankly turning a tt into a 400 bhp car is quite frankly a boring no brainer with no real need for rolling road verification of power, on the other hand it could be argued that turning a N/A into a 270bhp car with exhausts air filters ecu and fuelling mods is a much more worthwhile exercise and should turn an N/A car into a std tt auto beater................. Not to talk of the thrashing a well driven 250bhp NA car will give a 500bhp tt Supra on a twisty wet A road, race track or any other trying road surface. But I am sure all the tt snobs on this forum know this already......... LOL. Well comprehensively said mate.... Besides no point having a TT strapped to a rear wheel drive if you are not a good driver. 297bhp at the wheels hub tested by THOR! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 780z Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 LOL. Well comprehensively said mate.... Besides no point having a TT strapped to a rear wheel drive if you are not a good driver. 297bhp at the wheels hub tested by THOR! Absolutely Rays.....There is a God afterall then, what the hell have you done to your N/A to make it that fast ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc_p Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 Caterham by any chance?! must admit that looks a beauty! I must update those garage pics though, that was when it was getting rebuilt after engine failure on a trackday, run's sweet as a nut now though:) Yup Marc P, that looks like it will do some damage to the tt crew......... It will until you get it on the motorway, it hits the limiter in 6th at about 130......it's at about 450bhp per ton though, so it get's up there rather sharpish, although never really sees a public road as there too bumpy round here for it and too be honest it scares the poop out of me as it's so light it just get's chucked all over the place with the bumpy/pothole filled roads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc_p Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 Absolutely Rays.....There is a God afterall then, what the hell have you done to your N/A to make it that fast ? Begin's with 'N', finishes with 'S' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rays the roof Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 Absolutely Rays.....There is a God afterall then, what the hell have you done to your N/A to make it that fast ? 1. Induction kit (bespoke) 2. First cat out only 3. NOS 100 shot 4. Know how to drive an auto up the drag strip (launch & use of manual and overdrive buttons) Ramondo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animal Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 Begin's with 'N', finishes with 'S' NippleS? I thought it was full of overnight parts from Japan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 780z Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 It will until you get it on the motorway, it hits the limiter in 6th at about 130......it's at about 450bhp per ton though, so it get's up there rather sharpish, although never really sees a public road as there too bumpy round here for it and too be honest it scares the poop out of me as it's so light it just get's chucked all over the place with the bumpy/pothole filled roads. LOLOLOLOL...........Marc P are you really in Barbados ? the roads you describe sound like it..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animal Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 More like Barnsleybados, I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul mac Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 1. Induction kit (bespoke) 2. First cat out only 3. NOS 100 shot 4. Know how to drive an auto up the drag strip (launch & use of manual and overdrive buttons) Ramondo ere Ramondo, you up my neck of the woods at weekend i'll drop that money off i owe you, interest should have it into 3 figures by now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rays the roof Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 ere Ramondo, you up my neck of the woods at weekend i'll drop that money off i owe you, interest should have it into 3 figures by now I am going no where near the 'neck of your wood' this weekend. Especially after you being so so cruel to us lowly, insignificant bunch of No Aspiration ers! Thought I might see you at the classic car show last weekend in Heysham village. Give us a text Sat or Sun and we can meet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest atheuma Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 (edited) There seems to be a lot of never endless discussions between TT's and NA's. Now those who say that TT's are not superior to NA's is either jealous or else is high on something. But then again regarding the box there are 5 speed and 6 speed manual which does make a huge difference considering the different gear ratio and the A/R of the diff. So there are a lot of variations, but still a TT would be superior to NA. Being said that, imo if you buy a supra to leave it stock go for a TT which offers astounding performance, but if you buy a supra to modify it, I would go for an NA. Reason being is that with a 3mm headgasket you will get the same compression ratio as a TT. Secondly the TT offers one drawback (imo ) that it has only one wastegate, being in the #1 turbo. Therefore if you are to tune a TT (tuning turbo wise) you must start from scratch less the 3mm headgasket. But comparing the prices of NA's and TT's the price is cost effective for a 3mm head gasket. To all - Yes this is my first post but have been surfing a lot on this site. Also I drive a 94 N/A with 5 speed manual. wish it was a 97 NA (SZ-R) with the 6 speed getrag!!!! soon to be NA-T Edited August 6, 2009 by atheuma (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul mac Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 (edited) I am going no where near the 'neck of your wood' this weekend. Especially after you being so so cruel to us lowly, insignificant bunch of No Aspiration ers! Thought I might see you at the classic car show last weekend in Heysham village. Give us a text Sat or Sun and we can meet oh Ray, baby, your the exception to the rule, i'll give you a buzz Edited August 6, 2009 by paul mac (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul mac Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 There seems to be a lot of never endless discussions between TT's and NA's. Now those who say that TT's are not superior to NA's is either jealous or else is high on something. But then again regarding the box there are 5 speed and 6 speed manual which does make a huge difference considering the different gear ratio and the A/R of the diff. So there are a lot of variations, but still a TT would be superior to NA. Being said that, imo if you buy a supra to leave it stock go for a TT which offers astounding performance, but if you buy a supra to modify it, I would go for an NA. Reason being is that with a 3mm headgasket you will get the same compression ratio as a TT. Secondly the TT offers one drawback (imo ) that it has only one wastegate, being in the #1 turbo. Therefore if you are to tune a TT (tuning turbo wise) you must start from scratch less the 3mm headgasket. But comparing the prices of NA's and TT's the price is cost effective for a 3mm head gasket. To all - Yes this is my first post but have been surfing a lot on this site. Also I drive a 94 N/A with 5 speed manual. wish it was a 97 NA (SZ-R) with the 6 speed getrag!!!! soon to be NA-T welcome aboard and a contructive and well written first post (unlike some 15 years olds round here ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benkei Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 Being said that, imo if you buy a supra to leave it stock go for a TT which offers astounding performance, but if you buy a supra to modify it, I would go for an NA. Reason being is that with a 3mm headgasket you will get the same compression ratio as a TT. Secondly the TT offers one drawback (imo ) that it has only one wastegate, being in the #1 turbo. Therefore if you are to tune a TT (tuning turbo wise) you must start from scratch less the 3mm headgasket. But comparing the prices of NA's and TT's the price is cost effective for a 3mm head gasket. So your tunning is purely based on the thickness of the headgasket? I completely disagree with you. If you're going to buy a car and leave it stock, get an n/a, as you won't get a lot more power out of it, where as with a TT you will see a much bigger difference. If you're going single, an n/a takes a lot more work to add a turbo, where as the TT already has a turbo set up. Also, don't the TTs already have an oil line for the turbo into the block or something like that, where as the n/as don't? Welcome by the way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest atheuma Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 (edited) So your tunning is purely based on the thickness of the headgasket? I completely disagree with you. If you're going to buy a car and leave it stock, get an n/a, as you won't get a lot more power out of it, where as with a TT you will see a much bigger difference. If you're going single, an n/a takes a lot more work to add a turbo, where as the TT already has a turbo set up. Also, don't the TTs already have an oil line for the turbo into the block or something like that, where as the n/as don't? Welcome by the way Tuning is not based on thickness of headgasket. Dont try to sound like an idiot. Tuning is based on turbo which in turn is based on boost which in turn leads to compression ratio which is modified by the thickness of the headgasket. Unless you dont want to break all your stock internals. Does that sound simple enough for you? The tuning is based on turbo and psi. Now if you have an NA and you need to boost it in the 20psi range you need to increase its headgasket which is not that expensive. As to the oil lines the NA has got the marks of the TT version on the oil pan for return and inlet is near the oil filter. All you need to do is drill them and taps them. But if you have a TT and you need to go single turbo you still need a new manifold etc..... and if you will be boosting you need to go through the same process as an NA would. Get to know your Supra first. An NA-T with stock headgasket would run 8psi and should outrun a stock TT, due to the difference in the compression ratio. The only advantage of the TT over the NA is the oil injector to keep the crank cool which yet again has never heard of any NA-T having problem with the crank. IMHO the NA is better to tune the reason being is that if you have to tune a TT you must buy the same parts as an NA model. Stock TT is nice because it has got plenty of power, unlike the NA which although it has got power, you will soon get used to the NA power and would soon want more. Someone who wants a stock supra will never get fed up and will not get used to a TT power easily. Edited August 6, 2009 by atheuma (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benkei Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 Tuning is not based on thickness of headgasket. Dont try to sound like an idiot. Tuning is based on turbo which in turn is based on boost which in turn leads to compression ratio which is modified by the thickness of the headgasket. Unless you dont want to break all your stock internals. Does that sound simple enough for you? I'm just going by what you said, so if anyone sounds like an idiot, it's you. If you were going for a single turbo set up, wouldn't it make more sense to renew the engine's gaskets and such, as you'll be pushing it harder? This would include a headgasket. So if you're replacing the headgasket anyway, why bother going for a n/a? And what are you on about "breaking your stock internals"? Unless you run BIG power, the stock internals will cope quite well! The tuning is based on turbo and psi. Now if you have an NA and you need to boost it in the 20psi range you need to increase its headgasket which is not that expensive. As to the oil lines the NA has got the marks of the TT version on the oil pan for return and inlet is near the oil filter. All you need to do is drill them and taps them. But if you have a TT and you need to go single turbo you still need a new manifold etc..... and if you will be boosting you need to go through the same process as an NA would. Get to know your Supra first. An NA-T with stock headgasket would run 8psi and should outrun a stock TT, due to the difference in the compression ratio. Again, raving about headgaskets... So what you're saying is, to go single on an n/a, you'll need pretty much the same as a TT would, just more... and a thicker headgasket... Which you're replacing anyway... If you've looked around as much as you say, you'll notice a LOT more people who go single, are advised to, and DO start with a TT block, mainly because it's a better base, and is more set up for boosting. I'm not saying the n/a can't be boosted, I'm saying the TT engine is better for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benkei Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 IMHO the NA is better to tune the reason being is that if you have to tune a TT you must buy the same parts as an NA model. Stock TT is nice because it has got plenty of power, unlike the NA which although it has got power, you will soon get used to the NA power and would soon want more. Someone who wants a stock supra will never get fed up and will not get used to a TT power easily. Stop adding more bits while I'm quoting You forgetting about the gearbox? With a TT you get a good, strong gearbox designed for turbos, with the n/a you don't. So for an n/a to become single, you have to buy a new gearbox, which are expensive, especially if you're after a 6-speed. Go single on an n/a box and it'll die very quickly!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DodgyRog Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 Couldnt agree more! Na apart from the ones with a nice turbo bolted on are pointless for engine mods. Your not goin to get any where. The day my old na went up for sale is the day a struggled to keep up with a old honda crx v tec! Ok it was stripped out but it was a shed. The supra looks like a powerfull super car so should have IMO a big engine to go with it and not be struggling with your average mac ds boy racer! Ok if money cant afford a tt, but dont try and make a na quicker just spend the time and money making it look nice. Dodgy rog again in my opinion has a stunning looking na, because he knows it dont have the power so just spends the money on looks. Take this as you will, as said IMO Thanks Lee:cool: but I did make 217.7 on our dyno day last year, 2nd dyno sheet http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?t=161867 that was before 2nd decat and Wile and Barney were very surprised when he didnt blow me away as he dropped it at the end of this vid ( I dropped back suddenly due to the dual carriageway running out:D) obviously I am not trying to say I wouldn't have a TT by choice, but as a daily driver the N/A's running costs and reliability suits. The day I can have a weekend car, is the day I will have 2 Supra's on the drive, TT for weekend fun and the N/a for the daily commute:D hopefully fairly soon:whistle: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L33 Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 just sayin what i see mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 I just did a quote, out of curiosity... unmodified N/A £320 fully comp. Not half bad, you have got me thinking now She would kill me though, i would want to have twins in the looks department lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supraszr Posted August 7, 2009 Author Share Posted August 7, 2009 LOL. Well comprehensively said mate.... Besides no point having a TT strapped to a rear wheel drive if you are not a good driver. 297bhp at the wheels hub tested by THOR! Cheers Ray wanted to get you in on this as your car is running real well as an N/A:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 Cheers Ray wanted to get you in on this as your car is running real well as an N/A:) Anyone with a car can do the same bud. Bit of NOS is all it takes Can't say it would or wouldn't run as well as the other members because of the high figures Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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