JamieP Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 thats a bargain! although now that ive had a closer look.... 4 pot fronts? i cant see them being that much better than UK Them front brembos look the same as my rear brembos, maybe an older kit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 (edited) definatly looks thats way ... looking on MVP site they look like the entry level BB upgrade but they dont seem all that much bigger than UKs. I suspect they probly perform the same, possibly a little bit better but the only real advantage i can see is a bit of weight saving Edited November 2, 2009 by Kirk (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jevansio Posted November 2, 2009 Author Share Posted November 2, 2009 Out of interest I got a quote for some of the AP racing discs of the same size as stock UK, £610 for a pair, is this usual for a floating setup? I was under the impression once you have the bell/rotor setup it becomes cheaper replacing rotors rather than full discs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ark Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 FWIW AP recommend changing the disk and bell at the same time every time...course they would, it's more money for them. BUT they make a big issue about torque settings on the bells. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jevansio Posted November 2, 2009 Author Share Posted November 2, 2009 Anyone seen the Project Mu rotor/bell setup? http://www.witterracingservices.com/id10.html Is a fixed setup any more prone to warping than a stock setup (integrated bell)? £475 for bells & rotors in UK spec sizes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 DBA do the 5000 series which are also direct bolt, not floating Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jevansio Posted November 2, 2009 Author Share Posted November 2, 2009 DBA do the 5000 series which are also direct bolt, not floating *goess off googling* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieP Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 Go for BBK mate, stock calipers look sh1t:d Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 *goess off googling* Here you go, I looked at these before getting my setup from CW. http://www.dba.com.au/2006/products_5000.asp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jevansio Posted November 2, 2009 Author Share Posted November 2, 2009 Go for BBK mate, stock calipers look sh1t:d Just weighing up the pro's & con's of all my options at the mo bud, there's no doubting the BBKs look the best, at the mo there's not a lot of price difference between these 2 piece rotor setups when you factor in the fact I can sell my complete UK setup if I went BBK Here you go, I looked at these before getting my setup from CW. http://www.dba.com.au/2006/products_5000.asp Cheers, I found a UK distributor, looking at a tad over £600. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul mac Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 I know Paul used Hi-Spec to make you a bell, would it be possible to use say this AP rotor the bell, disc combination can be whatever you want them to be, either bolted or floating, the float comes from the drive bobbin and the disc not the bell, if your buying aftermarket discs (AP etc) the key measurements are the disc diameter, thickness and the depth of the pad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jevansio Posted January 8, 2010 Author Share Posted January 8, 2010 Woudl anyone be interested in hearing why I've come to the conclusion that since "weight saving" (and the performance benefits asscoiated with it) are my only concern, that braking isn't the area to spend money on, some being actually worse than UKs? If so I will explain everything I've worked out, if no-one cares (ie only upgrading brakes for braking performance or style) there's no need Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Explain away Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jevansio Posted January 8, 2010 Author Share Posted January 8, 2010 Damn, I thought nobody cared, I'll have to type it all up, but it would be good no the less to hear someone else opinion on what I have found/assumed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Damn, I thought nobody cared, I'll have to type it all up, but it would be good no the less to hear someone else opinion on what I have found/assumed Should have kept quiet then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jevansio Posted January 8, 2010 Author Share Posted January 8, 2010 OK, first things first, I totally understand that most people don't upgrade brakes to just "save weight". Performance is usually the main reason (but as I believe my UKs stop me well enough for fast road use, that isn't a concern for me - hell they stopped me from 180mph to 30mph 5 times plus at Brunters VMax albeit at the very edge of there capabilities). Also visual impact is a main reason I am well aware of. I'm going to start by quoting a section of the MVP site on Brembos: This 2-piece system rotor system weighs in at a significant weight saving as compared to your stock rotors and calipers. Your Supra TT OEM calipers weigh 29.0 pounds. The Brembo weigh 22.0, saving you 7 pounds of sprung weight. Your smaller Supra TT OEM rotors weigh 38.2 pounds. The Brembo 14" rotors weigh only 33.4 pounds, saving you 4.8 pounds of sprung weight. As you may know, sprung weight (rotating weigh like your flywheel, rotors, pulleys) slows your car down 10 times more than unsprung (stationary) weight. Upgrading to the 14" Brembo kit will save you 118 pounds worth of stationary weight! I'm starting here as a lot of people may read that & assume it's correct, upgrade and save 118lbs of stationary weight, thats 53kg!!! My first gripe is that I'm pretty sure a factor of 10 is totally unrealistic, I've seen factors of 5 may be closer to realism but as I will go onto later it's not just to do with the weight, more so how far that weight is from the centre of rotation. Next, it assumes that "unsprung" weight (like that caliper is multiplied by 10). IMHO that is incorrect, only rotating things can be multiplied by that factor. If the car had suspension that was so hard (it was none existent) & it accelerated along a flat plane, it would not matter whether any addition weight was carried on the suspension arms (unsprung) or the body itself (sprung) the result would be the same. So the 118lbs (53kg) they calculate IMHO is more like the 7lbs of caliper difference + 5 lots of 4.8lbs rotor difference, which is 31 lbs (14kg), nearly a quarter of the difference. Also, you have to take into account the fact that the distance any weight is from it's rotational centre has an effect. For example place 2kg near to the axle has much less of an effect placing 2kg far away from the axle. This comes into effetc when comparing 2 rotors, they are comparing a 356mm rotor which has an aluminium bell (low weight at centre) with a lot of weight (and some of it further than the stock 323mm diamter) away from the centre, with a rotor which carries a more even weight distribution and is of a smaller diameter. So, although I can't calculate it, the peformance gains due to weight in the Brembo Rotor are not the 4.8 lbs they claim. Bearing the above in mind I looked into some weights of some other setups. The Brembo 330 kit use the same calipers so no gain there, but they do use smaller lighter discs. I haven't recalced the nos MVP state for this kit but the fact remain the same, the factor is not 10, the calipers are not included in the factoring, and the discs are bigger than stock and have more weight around the edges. I contacted K-Sport a while ago about their 13 & 14" kits. The following is their weights: KS 330mm Rotor 17.6 lbs, Caliper 5.75 (ex pads) KS 356mm Rotor 19.8 lbs, Caliper 5.75 (ex pads) UKs Rotor 19.1 lbs, Caliper 14.5 (ex pads) You can see that abviously these kits carry a big saving in the caliper (but the caliper is not rotating). I do understand there is addition benefit in reducing caliper weight due to allowing the suspension and wheel to have less momentum and therefor move faster & respond to road surface changes quicker and keep contact with the road more. The KS 356 rotor is actually heavier than a UK and 356mm vs 323mm meaning that without a doubt it is worse to rotate. Any comments would be appreciated on anything I may have misssed/missunderstood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jevansio Posted January 8, 2010 Author Share Posted January 8, 2010 (edited) One other observation I have on this subject, mainly to do with the idea of how far weight is from the centre, is that I ditched my 10kg TRD split rims, in favour of the 8-9 kg Advans. One thing you have to bear in mind is that the Advans are cast and are made of the same material throughout, the split rims had a cast centre & alloy rims. The alloy rims on the TRDs weighed next to nothing (the part furthest from the centre). It may not be a fair direct comparison to compare the Advans & TRDs on weight alone based on their weight distribution? (and therefore weight alone is not an ideal direct comparison for any alloy wheel) Adding onto this is something which I considered too was that there may be a gain in performance bigger than you expect by choosing lighter tyres. I know for a fact the R888s are not as light as the more pricey competition (Pirreli, Michellin). To add some figures to this, all tyre sizes are 285/30/18 (my rears) R888 12.7kg PS2 11.8kg PSCup 11.3kg PS Cups are 1.4kg lighter than R88s. I upgraded wheels to save about that over the entire wheel & the tyre has more of an effect per kg than the wheel. I think in conclusion, I don't regret buying the Advans at all, & I think if I'm buying a BBK it has to be for more than weight alone (that's not to say I wouldn't like one money permitting ) Edited January 8, 2010 by jevansio (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imi Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 Found an interesting thread regarding aftermarket brake setups in particular D2 & G4 - not sure whether they are similar to other setups on offer http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/G4-D2-8-Piston-Brakes-t167104.html&hl=D2+brake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jevansio Posted January 9, 2010 Author Share Posted January 9, 2010 Ouch, that's not good is it. I think if I ever upgrade it's going to be Brembo or AP only Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxluc Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 I have been very impressed when I changed from my euro-spec brakes to the Stoptech's. Much better pedal feel, amazing braking power especially at higher speed ... and I like the 355mm disc size Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miko_supra Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 This will be good for my weight loss list http://mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?t=204765. So stock front calipers and discs are 15.3kg and K-sport are 10.6kg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imi Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 Ouch, that's not good is it. I think if I ever upgrade it's going to be Brembo or AP only Coming to the same conclusion myself. Another name that seems highly recommended is Alcon and perhaps KAD. Cost twice and sometimes thrice the cost of the other big brake setups but seem well proven in regards to performance and more importantly build quality. If someone can put the safety concerns to rest then I guess for fast road use and mild track use the cheaper big brake kits would suffice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pudsey Posted January 10, 2010 Share Posted January 10, 2010 Very interesting read this thread from start to finish. I liked the look of the K sport brakes reasonably affordable too. But after looking at the Skyline thread regarding some track time and then a failure of a similiar looking not well known branded aftermarket brake upgrade, makes you wonder why they are cheaper doesn't it. Always thought Brembo's and AP's are the way to go, both well known brands, well tested and highly regarded in the tuning and track world circles too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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