How much to change all four brake pads?

[Tricky-Ricky]

Well, I won in the end

 

But nothings simple with my car - oh no.

 

Any ideas as to why one set of pads (drivers side) would be worn down a lot. And yet the passengers side show hardly any wear at all?

 

Yes that side cylinder/s are/where seized, or you have a brake balance problem, did you not notice it pulling to one side under braking? that or somebody has just changed one set of pads only:blink:

[BillyC]

thats odd..............possibly a whole caliper has been changed and they left the pads that came with it in?

 

BTW i'd feel your wheels (possibly calipers - just be careful) after your next drive just to check for excessive heat build up or a difference in heat one side from the other...........which might identify a sticking caliper.

 

oh and well done

 

 

Cheers for that mate. I had the passenger caliper changed about 2 years ago for a second hand one when getting the brakes done as it was suggested by the guy - although I cant remember why. But he just happened to have a spare one

 

Had pads changed by Kwikfit a while ago and they never mentioned any problems - however, that doesnt mean anything.

 

If the passenger side one has been seized in the pots withdrawn position that would explain why the drivers side has been working extra. Would this be right? Surely I'd notice pulling or something though?

 

I've not noticed any problems with braking, although on occasion I think I've smelt something like burning but couldnt find anything. And presumed it was just a smell from the old exhaust which had a hole in it.

 

Can the calipers be checked with the wheels off? If I take the pads out should pumping the brakes cause the pot to fully extend? And if so, on release of the brakes should they return slightly.

 

Got a bad feeling about this now Just got the Mrs to reluctantly/half heartedly agree to the need for some new suspension. Like she's gonna be chuffed about shelling out for calipers. Have a feeling the suspension is gonna have to be put on hold for a while.

 

This is why I hate delving into things. Its never easy (or cheap).

 

Changing pads SHOULD have been a simple job, but now I dont know if the brakes are gonna work at all.

[Homer]

Well, I won in the end

 

But nothings simple with my car - oh no.

 

Any ideas as to why one set of pads (drivers side) would be worn down a lot. And yet the passengers side show hardly any wear at all?

 

Are both pads on the one side worn down an equal amount? Could well be a sticking slider if they are jspecs, although you'd normally feel a bit of pull when braking.

[BillyC]

Are both pads on the one side worn down an equal amount? Could well be a sticking slider if they are jspecs, although you'd normally feel a bit of pull when braking.

 

Both pads on the drivers rear have worn equally, half a cm left on both.

 

Both passenger side ones look as though they are new and havent worn at all. Some indication of wear but they seem as good as the replacement ones almost.

 

Calliper pot knacked in the withdrawn position on the passenger side? Or maybe no pressure getting to it?

[Homer]

Unless the previous pads were not all replaced at the same time then it sounds like a sticking caliper (or calipers) issue. The stock system works by braking offside wheels (i.e. left rear and right front) on the same system so I cannot see it being a fluid distribution issue.

 

The jspecs are prone to frozen sliders which can cause this exact problem, we're seeing more and more of them appear on here. Normally it's the rears that suffer from this rather than the fronts.

[Scooter]

 

Can the calipers be checked with the wheels off? If I take the pads out should pumping the brakes cause the pot to fully extend? And if so, on release of the brakes should they return slightly.

 

 

Firstly you won't actually see the pads backoff or return......

 

If you suspect a sticking caliper you can flip the part of the caliper with the piston/pads in off and place something in the caliper that will allow a cm or of a gap between it and the piston (don't forget to have this or else you will pop the piston totally out of the caliper - not a total disaster but it will mean getting it back in and bleeding will be needed)

 

Get your assistant! to press the brake pedal while you watch the pistons. Use whatever technique you use to push the piston back and repeat.

 

Are the rubber seals around the piston in good order?

Does pushing the piston back get easier?

If doing the fronts does one piston come out the full 1cm or so and butt against whatever you have in the gap before the other piston moves?

 

etc

[BillyC]

Thanks for the help guys. Its looking pretty much like the rear passenger side calliper is seized in the withdrawn position if I am reading the indications right.

 

Gonna pop her up tomorrow night and find out for sure. Something along the lines of:

 

1. Pop wheels off

2. Open up both calipers

3. Put something in the calipers to stop the piston popping out

4. (Should I have the car started here?)

5. Get Mrs to push the brake pedal

6. Smile as the rear driver piston hopefully pushes out to contact piece in calliper.

7. Check if the rear passengers side has pushed out to contact.

8. Swear a lot I suspect.

9. Push the pistons (suspect only one) back in.

10. Redo.

11. Swear.

12. Build it back up.

13.Explain to the Mrs why callipers cost so much.

14. Tell her I want some disks as well

15. Agree to put the suspension on hold for a bit.

16. Sulk

 

Where's NIC these days?

 

Saturday was gonna be oil change, coolant change, was hopefully have a go at brake fluid change, put in lighter and drive off into the sunset with a lit ciggy.

 

Think I'll just get pissed instead now.

 

Edited May 20, 2009 by BillyC (see edit history)

[Homer]

I like your sense of humour

 

It's much more likely to be a sticking slider rather than the piston itself. They should move freely under reasonable hand pressure, if not then the sliders will need a refurb. There are a good few threads explaining this in more detail than I can at this hour!

[BillyC]

I like your sense of humour

 

It's much more likely to be a sticking slider rather than the piston itself. They should move freely under reasonable hand pressure, if not then the sliders will need a refurb. There are a good few threads explaining this in more detail than I can at this hour!

 

Gotta laugh or I'd cry

 

Will investigate the refurb option a little I think. But to tell the truth its taken me long enough to investigate threads on here, list things so I have a specific order of doing them, get the parts, and get the courage up to attempt basic servicing things. This "easy" pad change has knocked me back a bit now.

 

Anyone who's done a refurb please feel free to point me in the right direction.

[Homer]

This should be of help Billy

 

http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?t=107717

 

Edit - just noticed this isn't what you asked for, I couldn't find a thread on the slider refurb, though they are around here somewhere!

[BillyC]

Oh, now youve got me really confused.

 

I thought that was exactly what I was looking for - apart from me only needing to do one instead of two pistons.

 

What are these sliders you speak of?

[Scooter]

 

What are these sliders you speak of?

 

When you seperate the part of the caliper with the piston from the part thats bolted to the wheel hub you undo x2 14mm bolts. Where these bolts attached to the part thats bolted to the wheel hub, you should see a nut/bolt/hex head and a rubber boot........grab the nut head and it should move fairly freely (alot more freely than the piston) in and out.

[BillyC]

Cheers mate, thats the bit I thought it was.

 

Its the bit that allows you to move the whole piston part forwards and backwards as a unit, to let you position the piston part over the pads.

 

I checked these yesterday. Didn't know nothing about them until I put some pressure on the piston unit and the whole thing moved backwards rather quickly. Nearly shat meself.

 

Anyway, both of them seemed to move freely backwards and forwards so I think I can probably rule that out.

 

I cant find a refurb thread for them though - just being nosy I think but I like to learn about the bits as I go along.

[BillyC]

Well, bit of an update.

 

Took the rear passenger side wheel off, popped the calliper open by opening the bottom bolt and checked the movement of the top slider. It seemed to move back reasonably easy, but not as easy as the drivers side one. Still, back it went, and back and back and back and back until it just popped off the end, with the rod blinking at seeing daylight for probably the first time in its 15 year old life.

 

Now, I dont know 100%, but I have a gut feeling that its not meant to come off like that. Or am I getting this totally wrong?

 

I take it there are actually 2 sliders as well. One for each bolt that you take the main piston part off?

 

I put in a piece of wood and the Mrs pumped the break and the piston seems to come out OK and butt up against it. Should I be removing the brake fluid cap when I push the piston back in by hand? Seems sensible but could be talking rubbish again

 

 

Anyway, the cars not going anywhere now as its siting on some stands in the drive looking quite sorry for itself. And will be till Tuesday when the replacement callipers arrive.

 

Now, to persuade the Mrs for some new disks. Might as well give it a go. Wish me luck...I'm going in.

[j1mb0b1]

lol this thread is quite funny your a legend billy

[Konrad]

Yes, take off brake fluid cap when pushing piston back, also keep an eye for brake fluid spilling over your engine. If there is too much of it, just use synergie to take some off

[BillyC]

Well, new disks ordered hopefully pick up tomorrow

 

And in a fit of pretending I wear the kecks in the house, I've ordered some of the Do Luck brake hoses from the group buy that MAY be delivered tomorrow.

 

Tried to blag the Do Luck girl that I missed out on the group buy because I was posted overseas when it was getting started, but she wasnt having any of it

 

Worth a try though.

 

Last question (for now anyway)

 

If I take the hose off the knacked calliper, roughly how much brake fluid will drain out of it?

 

I intend to do a full change anyway so not that arsed really. But would like to get the callipers off for a play before a refurb (Oh yeah, did I mention I ordered one of them as well ) just wondering if the whole lot is gonna fit in my coke bottle.

 

Will be doing the full fluid change once this whole brake malarky has been done.

Edited May 22, 2009 by BillyC (see edit history)

[BillyC]

Guys, I dont have anything to cap the brake hoses with if I take them off the callipers? Will there be a lot of fluid released through them? Or can I just catch it in an old bottle ready to take to the dump?

 

I dont know if the whole system will drain through or just a small amount.

 

If it is the whole system then would it be prblematic.

 

Cheers

[SUPRALOOPY]

Please get someone to do this for you.

[BillyC]

Please get someone to do this for you.

 

Why? What sort of comments that?

 

I may not be mechanic of the year, but doing this certainly isnt that difficult. And hopefully with some help from a lot of knowledgeable people on here I can overcome any little difficulties along the way. I might post as if this is all a bit of fun, butI consider myself reasonably competent at most things I turn my hand to. And I find your comment a bit patronising really.

 

Ok, so it started off as a simple pad change. The piston on the drivers was a bit difficult to get back in. Probably a bi harder than I expected, but not having done it before I didnt know what to expect. But I done it, andthe drivers side is done and dusted.

 

The O/S/R was different and I noticed the problem at the disks didnt apear to be used. From comments on here I've identified the problem and its the slider.

 

I've ordered up some replacement ones and they'll be here on Tuesday to put on. Then I'll bleed the system and things will be done and dusted.

 

I wanted to take the whole knackered calliper off tonight to have a good look at them. I like to learn all about things as I do them.

 

So I asked a question about capping the brake hose, or if its possible that only a certain amount would drain out. Which I could catch and then get a good look at the Pot and seals.

 

I've got the carrier part off already (bltswere tight like) and have looked at the part and its al quite simple really.

 

I dont see what your problem is. Sure, brakes arent meant to be messed about with, but replacing a calliper in predefined holes isnt exactly fuckin rocket science.

 

There's a wealth of posts on here and a few people have helped out with some constructive comments. I dont know if your some sort of supermechanic or what, but unfortunately Im fully competent in another highly technical trade, and somewhat keen on trying my hand at one or two things on the car that think I'd be capable of doing (with a bit of CONSTRUCTIVE help if needed along the way).

 

Anyway, rant over.

 

Now, gotta go as I'm not 100% sure if I've got them axle stands on upside down or not.

[T2 MSW]

Guys, I dont have anything to cap the brake hoses with if I take them off the callipers? Will there be a lot of fluid released through them? Or can I just catch it in an old bottle ready to take to the dump?

 

I dont know if the whole system will drain through or just a small amount.

 

If it is the whole system then would it be prblematic.

 

Cheers

 

If you disconnect one hose then eventually most of the fluid will drain out, but it certainly wont piss out everywhere Think there is about 1-1.5 litres in there so a little bit more than a coke bottle worth.

 

It would be advisable to do the fluid change at the same time as sorting the rest of the brakes, afterall there is little point in putting the old fluid back in and then changinig it again later on. Just means you will have to blead the brakes twice.

 

Remember if its got ABS you need to blead the breaks with the car running and start furthest away from the MBC.

[SUPRALOOPY]

Why? What sort of comments that?

 

I may not be mechanic of the year, but doing this certainly isnt that difficult. And hopefully with some help from a lot of knowledgeable people on here I can overcome any little difficulties along the way. I might post as if this is all a bit of fun, butI consider myself reasonably competent at most things I turn my hand to. And I find your comment a bit patronising really.

 

Ok, so it started off as a simple pad change. The piston on the drivers was a bit difficult to get back in. Probably a bi harder than I expected, but not having done it before I didnt know what to expect. But I done it, andthe drivers side is done and dusted.

 

The O/S/R was different and I noticed the problem at the disks didnt apear to be used. From comments on here I've identified the problem and its the slider.

 

I've ordered up some replacement ones and they'll be here on Tuesday to put on. Then I'll bleed the system and things will be done and dusted.

 

I wanted to take the whole knackered calliper off tonight to have a good look at them. I like to learn all about things as I do them.

 

So I asked a question about capping the brake hose, or if its possible that only a certain amount would drain out. Which I could catch and then get a good look at the Pot and seals.

 

I've got the carrier part off already (bltswere tight like) and have looked at the part and its al quite simple really.

 

I dont see what your problem is. Sure, brakes arent meant to be messed about with, but replacing a calliper in predefined holes isnt exactly fuckin rocket science.

 

There's a wealth of posts on here and a few people have helped out with some constructive comments. I dont know if your some sort of supermechanic or what, but unfortunately Im fully competent in another highly technical trade, and somewhat keen on trying my hand at one or two things on the car that think I'd be capable of doing (with a bit of CONSTRUCTIVE help if needed along the way).

 

Anyway, rant over.

 

Now, gotta go as I'm not 100% sure if I've got them axle stands on upside down or not.

 

Calm Down:p

[BillyC]

Calm Down:p

 

Fair play. Went off on one there a bit, just felt the post was a little unnecessary.

 

As for the fluid drain I've filled myself up with 2L of coke (diet of course) to cater for all eventualities. The main thought train was that if I raise the cable (maybe some tubing added) higher than the resevoir then surely, unless its pressurised by the brake pedal) it cant force itself out. It just seems an atmospheric pressure type of thing.

 

Anyway, I decided it wasnt really worth the hassle as there's no rush to play about with the knacked sliders and pots. Although its amazing how dirty they are - little wire brush and it takes years off them.

 

I'll pick up the disks tomorrow and hopefully the braided hoses arrive too.

 

May have a go at the disks tomorrow but will be taking the little feller out. Hopefully the old ones will come off easily enough.

 

Then when the new calipers arrive on Tuesday I can give them a paint before putting them on with the new hoses.

 

Thats the plan anyway.

 

 

If you disconnect one hose then eventually most of the fluid will drain out, but it certainly wont piss out everywhere

 

It would be advisable to do the fluid change at the same time as sorting the rest of the brakes, afterall there is little point in putting the old fluid back in and then changinig it again later on. Just means you will have to blead the brakes twice.

 

After finishing renewing the rear brake system (which was a little unexpected to tell the truth), I'll probably do the fronts next month. I've got 3 litres of brake fluid so a flush through now, and then again when I do the fronts will prob be what I do.

 

Just gotta get through this first :-)

Edited May 22, 2009 by BillyC (see edit history)

[SUPRALOOPY]

Great work. Sorry for the post I was only jesting. I will help any club member as best i can. If you were not so far away I would come and this for you just to help out or stand there and take the piss when you fook up.

I hope you finish it and all is well. (no hard feelings eh?)

Dave (supermechanic)

[BillyC]

Great work. Sorry for the post I was only jesting. I will help any club member as best i can. If you were not so far away I would come and this for you just to help out or stand there and take the piss when you fook up.

I hope you finish it and all is well. (no hard feelings eh?)

Dave (supermechanic)

 

No hard feelings mate. Funnily enough I'd read a post today about someone kicking off about people doing their brakes I'm such a sensitive soul.

 

So much for club ethos eh? Its only about 400 miles. And if you wanted to do my plugs for me then I promise I wouldnt complain too much. What time should I expect you?

 

I was actually thinking about this today. I seriously thought about posting up for a semi "sort of mechanical" meet for those around Glasgow. Its all well and good drooling over each others cars at every meet, but its about time some of these lazy b**tards got their hands dirty - and my car is as good as any to start on.

 

I've got all the parts for a complete service and thought it might be a good idea to offer up the idea of people coming over if they wanted. I'm quite capable of doing the oils, coolant and filter changes, but thought some others might never had tried it, but once theyd seen how easy it was (hopefully someone who knew wtf they were doing wold turn up ) then they might change their minds and be confident enough to do it themselves. I must admit that it would have been a bonus if someone who had done NA sparks could have come along and shown everyone how to do them.

 

My bird even said she would make some bacon sarnies

 

But if someone who knows about disk changes happens to be passing Uddingston then......

 

But since the "simple" pad change turned out to be a bit more involved than I thought it was gonna be then it sort of derailed that idea. Half a dozen Supes outside the house would have been nice to see

 

And a run out in a TT woud have been good