3 minutes! Grief inflation?

[Jake]

Oh so it's 3 minutes silence tomorrow for the victims of the tsunami, is it?

What's the point? What good will that do anyone?

Sept 11th 'only' qualified for 120secs.

Don't worry that the millions that died in WW2 only get one minute.

 

I'm sorry if this upsets anyone, but really, what's the point? Shouldn't we just reflect in our own way if we want to, rather than having a mock show of public grieving forced upon us?

[tbourner]

I've never agreed with minutes silences for anything.

 

I do it when I'm with a group of people (like at work) just so I don't offend anyone, but generally I wouldn't bother.

[Pete]

I think it's just a show of respect. Would you not go to a funeral of a friend? Well this is just another way of showing respect en-mass.

 

I've never done this either, usually because I forget.

[Supragal]

We have 3 mins here at 12. Yes it is a sign of respect.

[Syed Shah]

Lets see Jake,

 

1. A show of respect, simple.

 

2. With 3 thousand of so dead, by scale, it should mean a 100min silence.

 

3. Was a very long time ago, 1 minute every year vs 3 minutes for just this year.

 

4. Your not forced to do it, so don't.

[Soonto_HAS_soop]

Sorry I gotta agree with Jake on this one, it seems certain things get a silence, and other things don't. What about the 200+ people that died in that night club explosion/fire in Argentina? Do they not count for this sort of thing? Had this natural disaster not of been in the news, those people would be all over the papers.

 

This was a natural disaster, we should spend more time concentrating on getting relief and aid to these people, rather than sitting silent for 3 minutes. I'd rather have £3 taken directly from my salary to help aid these people. What does 3 minutes silence do for them? Nothing.

[Bill Prawn]

I agree with Jake.

 

It seems that a minute or more's silence is given to everything now.

 

When and where does it stop?

 

I whole heartedly agree with the silence on Nov 11th, but to keep commemerating/celebrating tragic events is a bit grotesque.

 

My heart goes out to these people as has some money to assist but I am not sure that a man in Indonesia would give three minutes silence for a tragedy in Europe.

 

 

 

 

 

Waits for a barrage of abuse.

[Supragal]

 

My heart goes out to these people as has some money to assist but I am not sure that a man in Indonesia would give three minutes silence for a tragedy in Europe.

 

 

Waits for a barrage of abuse.

 

How much aid did they give the US after 911?

[Pete]

Like the US needs money donations!?

[Jake]

Your not forced to do it, so don't.

You are where I work.

[SkyJawa]

Oh so it's 3 minutes silence tomorrow for the victims of the tsunami, is it?

What's the point? What good will that do anyone?

Sept 11th 'only' qualified for 120secs.

Don't worry that the millions that died in WW2 only get one minute.

 

I'm sorry if this upsets anyone, but really, what's the point? Shouldn't we just reflect in our own way if we want to, rather than having a mock show of public grieving forced upon us?

 

I'm with you Jake.

 

3 minutes is bloody ridiculous. Its a disgrace and proper shun to the countless millions that courageously fought and died for us to give us the freedom we have today in the WW's.

 

I didn't observe it out of point.

[Pete]

Yep - like I said. I completely forgot anyway.

[cashpoint]

Who decides if, when and how much silence we should observe?

[Sharpie]

I did think "Why 3mins" it is normal for 1min or 2mins but, why the creep in time ?

[Soonto_HAS_soop]

It'll start being 5 minutes and then 15 minutes. Don't see the point.

 

I'm like Jake, my place enforced it, but my desk phone rang 30 seconds into, so I answered it. Got some funy looks, but I had already expressed my thoughts on it earlier, it wasn't gonna help anyone, so why?

[Alex]

Hey can we have a sponsored silence like they used to do in school! lol...or was that just my school???? Or was it just me? lol

 

24hr sponsored silence...women would explode quite literally...or actually fart more cause they wern't expelling enough hot air!

[Supragal]

a sponsored silence on here would be a bit weak...

[tbourner]

Check the logs and see who posted within the 3 minutes!! Ban them for not adhering to the forum 3 minute silence!!

[Supragal]

Like the US needs money donations!?

 

It's more the principal I'm talking about. Did they send people to help etc? I dont feel strongly either way I just always try and see things from both sides.

 

I notice that another suicide/car/whatever bomber struck during the disaster- nice of them to have some sympathy.

[cashpoint]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/kent/4148717.stm

[damouk]

i do not agree with the silence one bit, my m8 is currently traveling and is near by, fortunatly he is ok and is doing his best to help out, but from what he says the locals really are scum, there are many of them walking around covered in stolen jewelery and watches !! what more needs to be said

[Dragonball]

I observed it as a mark of prayer and sadness for the thousands of lost children, the suffering and respect for those people who are still dying

 

I cannot understand why anyone would wish to do anything less for those here and now

 

Unfortunately we cannot all jump into 'medicines sans frontieres'

 

It is not a 'grief competition' but if the only way I can show that we are commonly bound by humanity then I, for one. am not going to miss this opportunity to display this

 

To engage in mere sophistry is churlish. What harm has it done?

[Dragonball]

from what he says the locals really are scum, there are many of them walking around covered in stolen jewelery and watches !! what more needs to be said

 

That will be the 80,000 dead, disfigured and unrecognisable children having helped themselves will it...FFS!!!

[MrAngry]

I observed it as a mark of prayer and sadness for the thousands of lost children, the suffering and respect for those people who are still dying

 

I cannot understand why anyone would wish to do anything less for those here and now

 

Unfortunately we cannot all jump into 'medicines sans frontieres'

 

It is not a 'grief competition' but if the only way I can show that we are commonly bound by humanity then I, for one. am not going to miss this opportunity to display this

 

To engage in mere sophistry is churlish. What harm has it done?

 

 

Well said Paul!

 

After spending the last week at work attempting to get planes in to the region taking supplies and medicine, and talking to people on the ground in these countries whose lives have been affected by such a huge tragedy. Observing a silence for them is a very small thing to do! paying respect en masse is costless.

 

Maybe it's because it's not on our own doorstep that people feel it doesn't deserve as much attention.

[SkyJawa]

People are allowed their opinions and people can do what they like, but there are always other people who have different thoughts and beliefs..........

 

What about the thousands starving and dying in Africa - how come they don't get their own 3 minute silence?

 

Already said about those that fought and died for us in the World Wars, they deserve less - riiiiiiiiiiiiiight. And what about all the civilians killed in them? How many forced silences like this are there for them anymore?

 

As I've heard stated on quite a few other forums:

 

"There was a major earthquake in Iran last year, 10's of thousands killed, but no 3 minute silence?"

 

"What I do object to is the perpetual Silences that are suggested by the media and then enforced by the grief police."

 

"There is nothing altruistic about public grief or telling everyone how much you have given to the fund.

How I feel about the thousands who lost their lives & how much I donated to the appeal is my business.

I don't want anything to devalue the two minute silence at 1100hrs on 11/11 where it is considered enough time to reflect on such things as the one million lives that were lost at the Battle of the Somme alone."

 

"its very simple......we give silence to those issue with close limks to home...the closer the link the better chance of silence.

 

dead in Iran.....no one knows anyone in Iran...no one goes there...nil points

 

dead in holiday resorts......some people know the dead, some people have been....+ LOTS dead....lots of points

 

dead in WTC.....not THAT many dead but they are westerners and LOTS of peole have been there....lots of points

 

dead in Indian flood....see Iran above...no points

 

The closer to home the less numbers are needed......best example being the Soham case.

 

Note that "close to home" has racial/geographical attributes as well....hence there is no silence for the girls shot dead in that gang thing a while back.

 

it aint a nice way to do it but it is how silence is awarded."

 

And an article someone posted on ScoobyNet, makes good reading IMHO:

 

"After reading this, some of you might think that I'm some sort of cruel, morally-vacuous creature with no empathy for my fellow humans' suffering. But I'm not. I deplore bigotry, cruelty, war, torture and being beastly to animals. I want a world based on love and understanding, not on hate and violence, and it's precisely because of this that I want our football grounds to stop observing 'a minute's silence'.

 

Who decides about these things? The latest one was for Ken Bigley (though apparently not for the two Americans who also suffered the same fate - are their lives different in some way?) and last week good old Brian Clough got one.

 

Are we supposed to equate these two things? What does it really mean? I think it's vacuous and shallow.

 

What are we doing holding a minute's silence at the football? Are we really showing respect? If so, is it to the victim/deceased/group or to each other?

 

It must be the latter because otherwise why would we be asked to do it in public? And what happens if you didn't like Brian Clough? Are you obliged to be quiet or can you express your disagreement? No of course you can't. There's some kind of collective if synthetic moral outrage if anyone breaks the silence by shouting say "Come on Wales" or "F*** off Wales" as they did on Saturday.

 

The way these things are forced upon us feels very wrong to me. It feels like I'm being told what to do and what to think. It's prescribing my emotions. I can't feel sadness and empathy for every human tragedy - I just can't and the truth is, as terrible as many things are, if you let yourself get too caught up in them, you'd become a weeping wreck and utterly dysfunctional.

 

If this minute's silence thing was really to give us all a chance to pause and think "thank God that didn't happen to me", that would at least make some sense to me.

 

We've had minute's silences for the horrors in Beslan (I couldn't work out if I was supposed to be silent just for the children or for the adults as well - it wasn't made clear). We had it for Holly and Jessica. For The Queen Mother, Princess Margaret and The Twin Towers. What good does it do? Does it really show we care? If so, why do we need to show each other we care? And why should we do this at the football?

 

You can't make yourself care about anything. You do or you don't. It's in your heart or it isn't.

 

I think it's often nearer the truth than we care to admit to say that we don't really care that much but we're trying to show we really do. This doesn't make us heartless *******s. It's just human. As the commentator purrs "immaculately observed" it's as though we're getting a pat on the back for being so touchy-feely. Aren't we great.

 

People have just been killed in hurricanes in USA - there'll be no minutes silence for them though. Isn't getting torn apart by nature bad enough? What about the killings in Sudan? Is that too difficult to understand? Too far away? Are they deemed less worthy than the kids in Beslan? What criteria is being applied here? Does the amount of people killed matter? Is beheading worse than shooting or getting run over by a drunk driver or shot by a drug dealer? Is it the colour of skin or their nationality?

 

And just who is judging who deserves our precious silence? Everyone dies in the end so what is happening with the minute's silence? Is someone making a judgement about the nature of the death or the nature of the person who died?

 

But do we really know what they were really like? If you are horribly killed by someone and it turns out you were once in jail for burglary, or you slapped your wife around, or you sold ******* - does that disqualify you from a minute's silence? Did you 'deserve' it to happen to you because you were not always morally upstanding? Is that what is being said here?

 

It's certainly arguable that the minute's silence for Mr Bigley was doing more work for terrorists. Look at the effect they've had on us all. Maybe they'll want to do it again just to see if they can repeat the same kind of coverage. If so, we should consider if we are not being forced to be complicit in such actions.

 

My dad had three of his brothers killed in WW2. His own role as a gunner in the Battle of El Alamein scarred him emotionally for life (he was awarded a medal for accuracy - in other words he killed a lot of people) and that was not without consequences for me.

 

From time to time I think about them and what they went through and why but I don't need to do it with 30,000 others people before seeing the Boro play Birmingham City. I don't need to do it with a bunch of boozed-up strangers or while inhaling the dodgy Albanian fags the bloke in front of me smokes and I would object to being told that I should.

 

I don't expect anyone else to feel like I do about my dead uncles and I would never ask that anyone should. You reading this don't really care about them as individuals but it doesn't make you evil or heartless.

 

It's like when politcians make sweeping statements about our lives - telling us what we think. Last week Michael Howard told me that I thought the NHS wasn't working and that crime was out of control in my area and that everything is basically crap. Which was a bit odd really since that's not my experience at all and I think the exact opposite. But thanks for telling me what I think Mikey.

 

But that's the same as an enforced minute's silence isn't it? It rudely assumes we all feel bad so we shall all stand and feel bad together and if you don't feel bad then there must be something wrong with you. Though the supporters of this practice seem to see no irony in showing a so-called respectful silence just before shouting abuse at footballers and calling the ref a ****er. Oh the humanity.

 

And just what is so respectful about silence anyway? Why is silence the expression of our empathy and sorrow? I loved Brian Clough but I didn't want to be silent on his death, I wanted to be noisy and to have some drinks in his honour. A minute's stream of abuse would have been much more appropriate.

 

An obligatory minute's silence does not show respect. It doesn't show what is in the hearts of those present. We're told to do it. Most do it for fear of being slagged off. It's vaguely fascist and its an emotionally childish response to events that have been on the Telly.

 

And that is at the heart of this. It's all a response to stuff that's on the telly. And that's what these minute's silence really tell us - if you want to get public respect, die on the telly. Get your story some coverage in the papers. It's like a macabre extension of celebrity culture.

 

Football fans are not all knuckle-dragging idiots and we have emotion, empathy and soul but a football match is not the place for us to collectively or individually prove it to ourselves or each other and that's why it's got to end. Let's have a minute's silence for the last time to mark the death of a minute's silence."