herbiemercman

Thank you style and Noz, basically Rocket Dog capped off the waste gate and the air pressure connection near the turbo, so all the knotted pipe could do is provide a complete blank off at each end. I have tried to contact Craig, (Rocket Dog), no reply as yet. My guess is that i just have a spring set up for 0.8 bar in the waste gate,just mechanical, and the back pressure from the exhaust opens the valve. Why blanking the pipe completely is seen to give better performance i do not know? Currently i have fitted a more robust new pipe connected at both ends, the car definately performs better than it did with the other pipe not being connected to the waste gate.? It is hard to see that the negative pressure/suction from my new pipe can operate a tiny bellows and help open the valve? Herbie.

Hi Guys, I drove to an exhaust specialist this morning and i noticed a distinct lack of power. When the guy was fitting the front pipe to the 3" down pipe he noticed that the 8mm dia rubber pipe had fallen off the input nozzle at the base of the waste gate. He removed the pipe from the connection nozzle, located underneath the boost pipe where it joins the boost air output on the turbo. He showed me the pipe and it had a tight knot in the middle which to me was deliberate by "Rocket Dog" to blank off the connection to the waste gate? Does anyone know why they would do that? as this has been like this ever since the NAT conversion and the performance in general has been superb. Anyway the new pipe was fitted and routed correctly, connected to the boost air nozzle on the boost pipe where it joins the turbo, and the other end connected to the waste gate input nozzle.This now means that the waste gate is operating with pressure signals from the turbo end. The journey on the way home had the engine's power back? I would appreciate it if any member could explain this? The tuner at the exhast shop could not explain this and neither could my local garage owner who is well clued up on tuning. Herbie. 20200123_144314.jpg (431.6 KB) 20200123_144204.jpg (458.8 KB) 20200123_122212.jpg (509.5 KB)

Many thanks Mawby, and Dunk for doing this thread. I will also take the advise to move my host of threads to "Word" on my hard drive. Herbie.

Hi Dunk and Adam, You pointing out that the guys are doing this as a DIY job puts a different slant on things, obviously to keep costs down, good luck to them. Someone should have told the members sooner, let's face it most of us expect everything to be working all the time and take the reliability for granted, bit like i am doing currently, realizing the complexity of bespoke mapping / tuning. Sorry i am used to the "Big Guns" being called in like the company i worked for, they were on big bucks, but at time struggled, and it cost us. Herbie.

So we just had the last 4 days with "server down for maintenance", just got it back on form, let us hope they can maintain this? It is now 2020 and we have the technology to land on Mars, amazing that we have problems with basic servers and software. lol. Herbie.

Hi Mike, I did not think you could top your last post but you have done with this one, be great if you could map my car. With reference to the "Emange" piggy back, yes this for me was great, i had good tick over, good starting, good torque and good performance, the spooling noise was great. All this went away with the fitting of the thicker gasket for logevity, i had to do this as the OEM gaskets were not FFP, (Fit For Purpose), and to avoid another failure i took the hit on performance. So i am going forward now with 550cc injectors bigger fuel pump and more boost, try for 500 BHP, i feel more confident now with your information, my top rated Merc man's friend hopefully will sort out the map. Thanks again. Herbie.

Hi Mike, A great post, you have refreshed my confidence. I can see that the failure modes are not as dramatic and definative as a mechanical timing belt failure, in that the mapping parameters seem to be much more qualatative. The detonation aspect would be a major concern, where the AFR and boost can be monitered by the driver. David P gave me a good contact in Northampton but it is a balls ache having to travel so far, i have a tuner/mapper near me in Blackburn, but they are asking £600 for their own bespoke maps, and tend to carry out plug and play maps. Do you know if i already have a good map, this makes a re-map much easier and much cheaper? Anyway you have given me more confidence and i have a good friend ex Mercedes wiz who chipped my Merc who knows a retired mapper and he may look at my car. Herbie.

Hi Guys, When i had my NAT Conversion three years back by "Rocket Dog Racing" in Cardiff i was well impressed with the performance, the Engine Tuner / Mapper charged £250. At the time i did not pay much attention to this side of the conversion, i assumed the guy just plugged in his laptop software and drove up and down. Recently i had to change the stock NA head gasket, it had failed on the front cylinder, car has covered 42,000 miles from new and 3,000miles with the conversion. I worked with my friend a good mechanic changing the gasket, it is a big job and risky to the uninitiated, i shelled out £1,000. To avoid a repeat of the failure i fitted the thicker more robust gasket, (£150), unfortunately the reduction of the compression ratio from 10 to 1, down to probably 8.5 to 1, has reduced the performance, the estimate being a loss of 50 BHP. The car is still fast but the loss of power is quite noticeable to me, the torque at the bottom end and the loss of the spooling screaming noise has gone. So now i am fitting a larger exhaust system, 550cc injectors and a larger fuel pump, this is a breeze after doing a head gasket job, my problem now is the re-map and finding a reputable company / guy who can carry this out. There is a lot of scaremongering surrounding bespoke mapping, not the plug and play piggy backs, its a bit like your timing belts level of importance, where you can wreck your engine, what i do not understand is how big a mistake with software does the Tuner/ Mapper have to make to destroy your engine? The valve timing and ignition timing are mechanically set, etc. I understand that there are many examples of the car not starting, or the AFR being out, or miss firing etc, but what causes the engine's destruction with a flawed MAP? Herbie.

Good to have this info now, the Mods should have put a thread out about the situation to avoid so many members thinking they had a problem with their set up. Changing the subject, to "Goblin Works" next Thursday, must admit that i will look out for this, but, i have found the program bizzar, they do stupid things to cars and seem to have unlimited funding, they try to be funny about it all, and IMHO they are not funny, "Wheeler Dealers" are much more interesting and good engineering, also they can be jokular, a bit like "laurel and Hardy." Top Gear has now returned in all its glory by Flintof and McGuinness. Herbie.

Just the extra one, the other looked fine, also the improvement the extra bush makes, in my opinion is more than adequate, there must be other members like me that do not know about this essential improvement, lets face it, diff repairs will be mega expensive. Herbie.

I have just started a new thread and the speed is back to normal. I agree with Dunk, but Rider is making a good point, i have not experienced this before for the past ten years, so some thing is amiss? Surely the Mods must know what the situation is? Herbie.

Hi Everybody, I have just added the extra rear sub-frame torque bush in accordance with David p's recommendations, just for the uninitiated members, the NA's have just one torque bush to handle the 220BHP, so if you are going NAT, and doubling the BHP, then you upgrade to a second bush, as per Toyota did with the TT model. The consequences of not doing this is abuse and possible failure of the diff and drives. Many thanks to David P, he must now be on a par to Chris Wilson. Herbie. IMG-20200114-WA0008.jpg (375.9 KB) IMG-20200114-WA0007.jpg (182.4 KB) IMG-20200114-WA0006.jpg (267.4 KB) IMG-20200114-WA0005.jpg (283.0 KB)

Surely one of the Mods will have looked into this by now? Herbie.

Is anyone finding the site is running slow, it took me ages to log in and then to start this thread? All my other sites are running at normal speed so it is not my PC. Herbie.

Thank you guys for the comments, i have to say i am surprised. If your car is running well and you want the tuning checked or altered how can they get it so wrong to cause damage to your engine.? May be if i knew more about the difficulty of getting everything spot on etc, then i could see why there is so much that can go wrong. It is like not changing your timing belt, or when i did the cylinder head gasket making doubly sure all the timing marks were spot on. I can see that they could leave you running lean or too rich on your AFR or the performance or MPG being off, but to wreck your engine does not seem so likely to me, i also cannot see why insurance is not available, as it is for far more expensive operations. Herbie.

Hi Dudes, Am i right in thinking that only the top few Tuners/Mappers have a dyno and also the appropriate insurance to cover engine damage etc? I ask this as i have heard that some just visit your house with a lap top and ask you to drive your car with them in the passenger seat with their equipment? It is also difficult to select a good Tuner/mapper as many have good and bad reports? Herbie.

The lights are now sold.

Hi Gaz, I have to agree, for years i had 20 MPG no matter how i drove the car, post NAT it dropped to 17 MPG, again no matter how i drove. I have to save up now so i can use it.lol. Herbie.

Hi David, Your post lifts me and makes me see that it may not take a lot to get some power and torque back. When you have experienced the performance of an NAT conversion after owning an NA for 20 years you cannot just try to ignore just loosing 30% of the power. It has taken a lot of money to get to the Stage 1 NAT level and then the expense and frustration of replacing a cylinder head gasket in your drive way, and in the rain. This Club and members like you and certain others, Mike and Frank,etc are a "God Send" for advice and information, not sure what people would do otherwise. I will contact the right Tuners and get my situation sorted, and as far as i know to date i may have to travel. Just a point, if i do end up with bigger injectors will it reduce my MPG? With reference to the W58 i intend just nursing it. Herbie.

Hi Mike, Thanks for the info, it is not easy to listen to many well meaning members and then decide what to do, what i am learning is engine tuning is far from straight forward, but it is difficult to not get involved. You are for example at the mercy of buying a knock sensor for £25 from Honk Kong which works fine, or buying one from a more reputable source or the OEM for £170. The Conceptua parts are very good, i agree their tech info should be ignored. With reference to the ign timing, what does rip mean? My way forward will be involving Paul at Whifbitz and this should get me back on track of how to return me to my good performance which i enjoyed prior to me unwittingly fitting a thicker head gasket. Thanks for your help. Herbie.

Many thanks, Frank and Mike, It is much appreciated. In some ways i wished i had just replaced the stock gasket 0.6mm with the same, BUT i was understandably concerned about having another gasket failure, as the changing of the last head gasket was very frustrating and expensive, i was advised to fit the thicker gasket and informed by Conceptua it would have much better longevity, which is correct, BUT i was not aware until post the job, that i would have dire performance issues. Can you guess just how much BHP and Torque i may have lost? However i am where i am, and for a while, i thought a re-MAP would resolve my problem, and i am still not sure just how much BHP i could recover with it.? May be the ignition could be a little retarded as we could not start the engine after fitting the new head gasket, we had marked the dizi in the clamp with "tipex" but a member told us we could be a notch out due to having taken the cam shafts off, we tried it and it started and ran superbly, it is still the same, BUT reduced torque and speed. Is it worth advancing the ignition a touch? I have also just ordered a competition exhaust system to replace the stock system and stock silencer which Craig at Rocket Dog told me was reducing the spooling. Herbie.

Hi Frank, My NA was stock from new, including the injectors. The following was carried out by "Rocket Dog Racing" (Craig Allard),a great guy and a friend, he had some work difficulties for a while but now he is well on his way back up and i believe he is quite friendly with Paul, Whifbits. My Spec: was what he calls stage 1.With the stock w58 box, stock head gasket, and stock injectors. The replacement parts: Stage 2 street clutch, T61/7068 14 Turbo, 3 inch custom down pipe, 50mm external waste gate, 2JZ GE 14 Manifold, Greedy Emange ECU software, Toyota 4 Runner Diz Cap, Full Front Intercooler, NGK BCR8ES Spark Plugs. The performance spec gave boost at 0.9 bar, circa 400 BHP and max speed 172 MPH. The performance was great until the replacement 1.6mm thick gasket replaced the stock 0.6 mm gasket,which had blown. The performance is still very good, starting, tick over, acceleration up up to 70 / 80MPH, but beyond this speed it just builds, not as good as before. I am trying to establish how i get back to my 400BHP as i have it on good authority that i could have lost as much as 60BHP with the thicker gasket. The big question is: Can i get back with a re-MAP, or will i need to look at bigger injectors and increasing the boost to 2.5 bar, i am not sure of this much higher boost pressure and i am not sure the current turbo could achieve this? or can the pressure release valve be adjusted? Finaly Craig told me that my stock exhaust system including the silencer, which i wanted, was reducing the spooling due to its resistance being more than the exhaust systems they use. I will be fitting a replacement exhaust in the near future prior to the re-MAP. Sorry this is a bit of a long posting Frank and hope you can give your valued opinion. Herbie.

Many thanks David & sideways, I will contact Tuner Dan Turner, at Advanced Motorsport and Tuning. My situation is that i had an NAT conversion with "Rocket Dog Racing" the spec was circa 400 BHP, running 0.8bar boost with standard injectors, single turbo, and Emange Blue ECU piggy back etc. It was a good job and great performance, however the head gasket failed after 3 years, had car from new with 40K on clock. I was advised by several club members to fit a thicker gasket, 1.6mm instead of stock at 0.6mm, they stated it would not affect the compression ratio by much and also the BHP, as well as improving the longevity of the gasket which is a big job which i do not want to carry out again. I noticed the reduction in performance after a few weeks and was advised by a few members i just needed to have the MAP checked and restore the performance? I have also been advised that the BHP could have been reduced by as much as 60 BHP? and to recover the performance bigger injectors and more boost would be required? I feel this is the correct way forward and this is some thing i want to consult Tuner Dan on. Herbie.

Hi Dudes, I am trying to contact a Tuner / Mapper named Linden Sharp "HTP" i am informed his Club name was nodalmighty. Apparently he worked for Craig Attard who carried out mt NAT conversion. Linden i am informed is familiar with the Greddy ECU mapping. ? Herbie.

Hi Noz, Looks like i had an emange blue fitted and the initial performance, in all departments were superb, staring,tick over, and performance. Before i try to reach my original mapper, the one which sideways dan had, like me, at "Rocket Dog Racing". Can you advise me on a mapper, (Tuner), who would be conversant with my software package? I do not mind having to travel and you rightly say it has to be worth it in the end, obviously i would not like having to return for any post MAP issues, all be it can there be teething problems wit MAPS? Changing the subject i don't think you high-jacked my posting, but it is good to see members being forgiving, and "Frank" like you have with Adam, i do not know him but i just take people as i find them. I will be grateful for any info you can supply me, on Mapping, not Adam.lol. Herbie. - - - Updated - - - Hi Noz, Looks like i had an emange blue fitted and the initial performance, in all departments were superb, staring,tick over, and performance. Before i try to reach my original mapper, the one which sideways dan had, like me, at "Rocket Dog Racing". Can you advise me on a mapper, (Tuner), who would be conversant with my software package? I do not mind having to travel and you rightly say it has to be worth it in the end, obviously i would not like having to return for any post MAP issues, all be it can there be teething problems wit MAPS? Changing the subject i don't think you high-jacked my posting, but it is good to see members being forgiving, and "Frank" like you have with Adam, i do not know him but i just take people as i find them. I will be grateful for any info you can supply me, on Mapping, not Adam.lol. Herbie.