PDA

View Full Version : My BPU TT6 Dyno run - Round 4 on Page 4



Samurai 20V
09-05-15, 18:12
Hi Chaps..

Engine Type - TT
Engine Spec - Stock
Turbo - Stock
Fuel Used - 95 Pump fuel
Exhaust - Kakimoto catback & double decat
Transmission - V160
ECU - Stock
Power figure - 216wkw/290whp
Torque figure - 431nm ( not sure if this is right)
Boost Pressure - 1 bar



Run was in 4th gear ( Car usually makes 1.2 bar in 4th, not sure why it did not make full boost)

Made lower figures with water spray turned on).

Ambient was about 29deg with 77% humidity..

Car is in TTC as issues with IACV

Do u think the figures are as per a normal BPU? Or should I be worried?

http://www.mkivsupras.co.uk/imports/2015/05/237.jpg (http://s155.photobucket.com/user/Rajeevjagath/media/image1_zpsapgru1cl.jpg.html)

tony tt
09-05-15, 18:43
Something wrong there id say. Figures are low for bpu at the wheels. Surely you don't lose 110hp from fly to the wheels?

safcdixon
09-05-15, 18:47
Id agree with Tony, mine made 330ish at the wheels at bpu, numbers seem low

Chris Bailey
09-05-15, 18:49
Something wrong there id say. Figures are low for bpu at the wheels. Surely you don't lose 110hp from fly to the wheels?

He was only at 1bar though and not all bpu supras make 400bhp. Another thing to think about is the temperature during the run. A car wont make maximum power in hot temperatures. Also the run was on 95ron fuel which will affect the figure.

Depending on the transmission loses 290whp is about 350bhp ish?

tony tt
09-05-15, 18:51
Could it be the 95ron that it showing low?

- - - Updated - - -


He was only at 1bar though and not all bpu supras make 400bhp. Another thing to think about is it the temperature during the run. A car wont make maximum power in hot temperatures.

Depending on the transmission loses 290whp is about 350bhp ish?

Didn't even see the 1 bar there.

Benjy
09-05-15, 19:04
Mine made around 380bhp @ 1bar. So circa 310ish @ the wheels. + the 95ron at 29 degrees ambient air temp, 290's about right I'd imagine.

Hitbox Junkie
09-05-15, 19:04
Did not think Supras could run 95 :/ Run it on Vpower and see a difference in the figures :)

safcdixon
09-05-15, 19:11
Did not think Supras could run 95 :/ Run it on Vpower and see a difference in the figures :)

Hes in south africa not sure if its available over there

Could try an octane booster of some sort though

Samurai 20V
09-05-15, 19:18
Hi guys,

Thanks for all the replies.

I was a bit worried the car is not right, but it pulls like a steam train on the road.
We don't have 98 Ron here, only 95... Hence I am using water spray, but it made less with the spray on..

Samurai 20V
09-05-15, 19:27
Next for me is to map the car with Ethanol, but first gonna replace the vsvs and Iacv valve to stabilize the boost...

Scott
09-05-15, 19:29
Should be a 3rd gear pull.... not 4th. You're looking for a 1:1 ratio on the pull.

It seems a bit all over the place, are the dyno operators inexperienced?

Torque looks low too.

Did you hit 1.2bar on your way home?

Samurai 20V
09-05-15, 20:19
Ok, didn't know that it should've been 3rd. To be honest, there are few good dyno operators where I live.. This one is not one of the best.. Car was 1bar in 2nd, 1.15 bar in 3rd and just hit 1.2 in 4th... It feels awesome on the road...

Scott
09-05-15, 22:02
You maybe need to up the gain a little bit. You should easily see 1.2bar in 3rd. Is it an EBC you have?

Chris Bailey
09-05-15, 22:52
Ok, didn't know that it should've been 3rd. To be honest, there are few good dyno operators where I live.. This one is not one of the best.. Car was 1bar in 2nd, 1.15 bar in 3rd and just hit 1.2 in 4th... It feels awesome on the road...

At the end of the day, if it feels fast enough on the road for you. Thats all that matters :)

Scott
10-05-15, 00:08
At the end of the day, if it feels fast enough on the road for you. Thats all that matters :)

That's loser talk :D

tony tt
10-05-15, 00:17
that's loser talk :d


:d

Samurai 20V
10-05-15, 09:46
Yes Scott, I have a hks evc.. I have it set like that so I get 1.25bar in 5th gear.. If I increase the gain, it overboosts in 5th and 6th..

Scott
10-05-15, 15:04
Yes Scott, I have a hks evc.. I have it set like that so I get 1.25bar in 5th gear.. If I increase the gain, it overboosts in 5th and 6th..

It's possibly something to do with being in TTC mode then. I never had any issues hitting 1.2bar in 3rd through 6th when the gain was set correctly. The gain should bring the boost in hard but the boost setting should pull it back down again. Is the boost set at 1.2bar or is it a %age setting?

Samurai 20V
10-05-15, 16:20
Boost is set at 1.2 bar, not % setting.. I have some vsv and a iacv valve coming from Japan, as soon as these arrive will return the car to sequential mode..

Samurai 20V
10-05-15, 16:21
I need to get the car right before I get it mapped which is in 2 months time..

jumpbike
17-05-15, 00:59
Should be a 3rd gear pull.... not 4th. You're looking for a 1:1 ratio on the pull.



5th is a 1:1 ratio...

Scott
17-05-15, 01:04
5th is a 1:1 ratio...

Oops yeah, 5th. I got 3rd from the Auto :D

Apologies Samurai, should have been a 5th gear pull :)

Samurai 20V
17-05-15, 07:39
Oops yeah, 5th. I got 3rd from the Auto :D

Apologies Samurai, should have been a 5th gear pull :)

Thanks, will re do the run to see the difference...

Samurai 20V
11-07-15, 17:38
Ok, went back to the dyno today.. Same dyno, same conditions..

Difference with the car was changed all the VSV's, and the two rubber link pipes and returned to sequential mode from TTC.

Car was at 1.1bar roughly, it does not want to make more boost than that on the rollers, it makes 1.2 bar + on the road.

Overall, I am happy with the gains, as the car feels insane, and noting this is on 95 and water spray..

The car made 10kw less with the water spray off, so I am glad that its doing its job finally (change point here was that I brought the spray in at a later boost).

I realised that I cant dyno in 5th gear as I still have the speed limiter, will dyno again once the speed cut is fitted.

http://www.mkivsupras.co.uk/imports/2015/07/143.jpg (http://s155.photobucket.com/user/Rajeevjagath/media/image1_zpsvcfcx1op.jpg.html)

Scott
12-07-15, 11:30
Those figures still look incredibly low to me bud. Of course, what matters is the bum dyno..... but I'm still confused with what you are seeing. I take it the figures are at the wheels? If so it's not THAT low and it may be down to the 95 ron fuel. The torque seems low on the dyno though.

Samurai 20V
12-07-15, 11:42
Those figures still look incredibly low to me bud. Of course, what matters is the bum dyno..... but I'm still confused with what you are seeing. I take it the figures are at the wheels? If so it's not THAT low and it may be down to the 95 ron fuel. The torque seems low on the dyno though.

Scott,

The figures are at the wheels. I am not looking at the torque figures though, with a 4th gear run.

Car feels ALOT faster then it was before.

I will try another dyno to compare.

nihontoman
12-07-15, 12:51
Those figures still look incredibly low to me bud. Of course, what matters is the bum dyno..... but I'm still confused with what you are seeing. I take it the figures are at the wheels? If so it's not THAT low and it may be down to the 95 ron fuel. The torque seems low on the dyno though.

if that seems low for you for BPU supra, look at y dyno thread: http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?324526-320-WHP-single-6-speed-on-0-9-bar

it's 320 WHP on 0.9 bar with a friggin' single turbo :|

Scott
12-07-15, 13:22
if that seems low for you for BPU supra, look at y dyno thread: http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?324526-320-WHP-single-6-speed-on-0-9-bar

it's 320 WHP on 0.9 bar with a friggin' single turbo :|

With the right setup that will make a lot more power though. It's been built as a bit of a bodge, once you have the right gear on there you'll be flying.

Scott
12-07-15, 13:23
Scott,

The figures are at the wheels. I am not looking at the torque figures though, with a 4th gear run.

Car feels ALOT faster then it was before.

I will try another dyno to compare.

Can you get some 98+ Ron? What about some octane booster? It would be good to get a comparison on the same dyno with more appropriate fuel. The ECU will really not like 95, over here our cars run like a bag of spanners on it.

nihontoman
12-07-15, 15:03
Can you get some 98+ Ron? What about some octane booster? It would be good to get a comparison on the same dyno with more appropriate fuel. The ECU will really not like 95, over here our cars run like a bag of spanners on it.


agree on the octane level. AFAIK the car is optimized for 98 RON, running it on 95 is not ok power wise and potentially dangerous even...



With the right setup that will make a lot more power though. It's been built as a bit of a bodge, once you have the right gear on there you'll be flying.


thanks for this. I do plan to eventually get an ecu and bigger injectors to make use of the single turbo potential. not really keen on experimenting with the AIC setup too much - if anything bad happens, I won't be able to forgive myself for that...

Samurai 20V
12-07-15, 15:26
Can you get some 98+ Ron? What about some octane booster? It would be good to get a comparison on the same dyno with more appropriate fuel. The ECU will really not like 95, over here our cars run like a bag of spanners on it.

I can get 98 RON, it is sold as race fuel by BP.. NF is a popular, I did try it and the car felt better (that was when car was in TTC as well with damaged VSV's)

Wil give that a shot.

Thanks for all the help.

Samurai 20V
12-07-15, 15:29
agree on the octane level. AFAIK the car is optimized for 98 RON, running it on 95 is not ok power wise and potentially dangerous even...





thanks for this. I do plan to eventually get an ecu and bigger injectors to make use of the single turbo potential. not really keen on experimenting with the AIC setup too much - if anything bad happens, I won't be able to forgive myself for that...

I have water injection to try to compensate for the poor fuel, there doesnt seem to be any detonation, have never seen the MIL light up on a full boost run..

I do plan on mapping the car soon, with 95 as a base and with ethanol as well.

Scott
12-07-15, 15:50
The JSpec Supras are set for 100 ron. 99 is the best available to us in general :(

nihontoman
12-07-15, 17:08
The JSpec Supras are set for 100 ron. 99 is the best available to us in general :(

100 ron from the factory? damn, that's really restrictive :/ there's only one station in my country (luckily, in the city I am in) that has 100 ron petrol... would it show some tangible increase in horsepower if I switched to that from 98 ron?

Scott
12-07-15, 17:13
100 ron from the factory? damn, that's really restrictive :/ there's only one station in my country (luckily, in the city I am in) that has 100 ron petrol... would it show some tangible increase in horsepower if I switched to that from 98 ron?

I would think so. The jump from 95 to 99 is fairly large and I guess every little helps. Trouble is it would take around half a tank for the ECU to notice the difference and make the changes.

Samurai 20V
12-07-15, 21:02
Scott,

The stock ECU should pull back timing if fed with 95 fuel making it safe to drive the car on this fuel?

I have been running for 2 years and 12000kms on this fuel and water spray.

All my friends with Supras have been running longer on the same setup..

Scott
12-07-15, 21:08
Scott,

The stock ECU should pull back timing if fed with 95 fuel making it safe to drive the car on this fuel?

I have been running for 2 years and 12000kms on this fuel and water spray.

All my friends with Supras have been running longer on the same setup..

Yup that's right. The timing gets pulled as the ECU adjusts. After which it should run reasonable, but it's never recommended. When guys in the UK have done it through emergency, it misfires and splutters quite badly as the ECU adjusts.

MAJOR power sap though.

Samurai 20V
12-07-15, 21:25
Yup that's right. The timing gets pulled as the ECU adjusts. After which it should run reasonable, but it's never recommended. When guys in the UK have done it through emergency, it misfires and splutters quite badly as the ECU adjusts.

MAJOR power sap though.

I have never experienced that ever, just filled the tank with 95 and she ran perfect..

Same as it ran in Japan. Same as all the other guys with Supras here.

Will try with 98 RON and see if it makes a difference..

Samurai 20V
15-08-15, 23:35
Ok, as Scott suggested, found some 98 Octane fuel, and redid the dyno run..
The figures in green show the power gain. ( as mentioned before, this is wheel power)

Conditions were similar, max boost was at 1.16bar.

The car is feeling a whole lot faster with this fuel...

With running this fuel, I noticed the AFR leaned out to 9.8:1. With 95 fuel I used to see 8.5:1. My theory is the stock ECU was compensating for the crappy octance by adding fuel..

Note, the 8,5:1 AFR was the same as I used to see in Japan with Hi Octane, I think Japan fuel is no longer 100 octane at the pumps..

This run was done with water spray on, with it off, car made same power but 1.8nm less, so the octane is doing its job

Comments?

http://www.mkivsupras.co.uk/imports/2015/08/338.jpg (http://s155.photobucket.com/user/Rajeevjagath/media/IMG_4197_zpslemxaeog.jpg.html)

Scott
16-08-15, 11:24
Much more healthy. 335whp is much more like what I would expect to see. That's approx 400hp at the fly (just under) which is much more normal. Torque is right up there too, over 400lbs.

Scott
16-08-15, 11:26
BTW, the ECU is still running super rich. I wouldn't expect lower than 10 but that may be down to the fuel or the ECU needing more time to adjust.

Basically, you would get even more power if you stuck with the 98 (or higher) for a while.

Samurai 20V
16-08-15, 12:54
Much more healthy. 335whp is much more like what I would expect to see. That's approx 400hp at the fly (just under) which is much more normal. Torque is right up there too, over 400lbs.


BTW, the ECU is still running super rich. I wouldn't expect lower than 10 but that may be down to the fuel or the ECU needing more time to adjust.

Basically, you would get even more power if you stuck with the 98 (or higher) for a while.

Thanks for all the advice Scott..

The road performance has shown a marked improvement, best its ever been..

The issue with the 98 octane here is its only sold in 20L barrels and the price is double that of pump fuel..

The only way forward to run the car permanently on higher octane is octane booster or ethanol..

I am leaning the ethanol route as it would set the car up for future mods..

Ethanol is cheaper than pump fuel as well, most octane boosters are dodgy as well.

Thanks again for the help.

Scott
16-08-15, 12:56
Can't go wrong with ethanol, would it not need an ECU and flexi fuel setup though? Very expensive. Another option would be to get an aftermarket ECU and get it properly mapped for 95 ron, that would help a lot although you would never make the maximum power.... it would just run well.

Samurai 20V
16-08-15, 13:29
Can't go wrong with ethanol, would it not need an ECU and flexi fuel setup though? Very expensive. Another option would be to get an aftermarket ECU and get it properly mapped for 95 ron, that would help a lot although you would never make the maximum power.... it would just run well.

The tuner I am talking to is a Haltech agent, he recommends the new Elite with Flex fuel setup. It is expensive, but will be utilised if I ever go single turbo..

He did give me the option of fitting a piggyback to tune the car with 95, but now that I know how the car should run, I want to try to keep it at that level.

Will work out the costing and take it from there...

Thanks.

Scott
16-08-15, 13:37
You're definitely on the right lines with your plans anyway. It'll be a great setup for BPU if you go down that route, although there's no way you could really call that basic :D

Samurai 20V
16-08-15, 15:01
You're definitely on the right lines with your plans anyway. It'll be a great setup for BPU if you go down that route, although there's no way you could really call that basic :D


I'm happy that I finally got the car running right after all these years.

Now I can move forward..

Thanks.

Samurai 20V
05-12-15, 13:30
Ok, round 4...

Same setup as before, except installed the Mines ECU that I had.
Similar weather conditions..
98 octane in the tank.. Boost 1.2bar
Some improvement in power, but the AFR is still rich, in the 9.0s...
Noticed the that water spray didn't help the power with this ECU, might need to pull the flow back abit..

This is the last step for me before mapping the car, I think its a solid base..

http://www.mkivsupras.co.uk/imports/2015/12/167.jpg (http://s155.photobucket.com/user/Rajeevjagath/media/Dyno%205%20-%20Mines%20ECU%20amp%2098_zpsdzmltpo4.jpg.html)

goldenvtr
08-12-15, 18:47
is that at the wheels or fly?

Samurai 20V
08-12-15, 20:13
is that at the wheels or fly?

At the wheels mate..

Krister
08-12-15, 21:49
So 258kW at the wheels? It's 350whp.

How are you going to map it? Stock ECU isnt mappable wihtout piggyback systems. Only way is a standalone.

Samurai 20V
09-12-15, 04:42
So 258kW at the wheels? It's 350whp.

How are you going to map it? Stock ECU isnt mappable wihtout piggyback systems. Only way is a standalone.

Planning Haltech Elite with flex fuel setup..

Scott
09-12-15, 12:20
You've went from under reading to over reading. 350atw is a brilliant figure.

Luxluc
09-12-15, 12:45
350 rwhp is approx 410 bhp. That's a great result.

Luxluc
09-12-15, 12:48
605 nm (445 ftlbs) is great too. Well done :thumbs:

Samurai 20V
09-12-15, 14:43
You've went from under reading to over reading. 350atw is a brilliant figure.

I'm very happy with the car Scott, the Mines ECU has added that little extra as you have always said previously.. I don't regret having bought it.. Thanks for all your help.
There was alot of work involved in getting up to this power, I even had to take the gearbox out to reach all the vac pipes and replace with new ones, found so many with pinholes in them..


350 rwhp is approx 410 bhp. That's a great result.


605 nm (445 ftlbs) is great too. Well done :thumbs:

Thanks mate.. Just to confirm, are you estimating 15% increase to get from wheel to flywheel torque? Was never sure what was the agreed estimate.
I'm not sure if the figures are 100% accurate, but the gain in power from each dyno is what I am focusing on, plus the road performance is the best its ever been.

Scott
09-12-15, 15:13
You have a lot of power left to gain if the AFRs really are that low. Ideally you want low-mid 11s which will give you the ideal safe power. I'm surprised it's running so rich, does it blow out a load of black smoke? How confident are you in the AFR figures?

You've got the right attitude with the dyno :thumbs:

Samurai 20V
09-12-15, 17:40
You have a lot of power left to gain if the AFRs really are that low. Ideally you want low-mid 11s which will give you the ideal safe power. I'm surprised it's running so rich, does it blow out a load of black smoke? How confident are you in the AFR figures?

You've got the right attitude with the dyno :thumbs:

The gauge I have is the HKS AFK which uses a Bosch wideband sensor, so it should be fairly accurate..
I have a spare one, will try it out and see if it changes the readings.
I haven't seen it smoke, the tuner I'm talking to also thinks it may be reading wrong..

Dyno figures down here are very controversial, some of them are ludicrous in the power they give.
The one I used is one of the more accurate ones..

Hoping to gain some more after mapping, plus with ethanol will have a permanent, cost effective solution to running high octane fuel.. (Less the initial investment of course)

Scott
09-12-15, 22:47
Check what it reads out of the exhaust if it's easy to get to. If it isn't, check what it reads after a day or so of no use (Just turn the ignition to "ON" rather than firing the engine). Should be 21.7 iirc.

Samurai 20V
06-07-16, 12:04
Round 5...

Difference from previous was 103 octane fuel in the car...
Mines ECU still installed.
Boost 1.18bar
AFR 10:1

Graph is below, figures at the wheels..

Car feels way faster on the road, its a beast on the road.
The figure may be optimistic, but the gain from previous is what I am focusing on.. (This is the same dyno I used before).

http://www.mkivsupras.co.uk/imports/2016/07/70.jpg (http://s155.photobucket.com/user/Rajeevjagath/media/IMG_7858_zpskduwowho.jpg.html)

JasonR24
06-07-16, 12:16
366 whp 383 ft lbs

Nice figures!

Samurai 20V
06-07-16, 18:10
366 whp 383 ft lbs

Nice figures!

Thanks mate..

Car is running sweet, best it has ever been..

Chris Bailey
06-07-16, 20:42
Spot on now mate :thumbs:

Samurai 20V
06-07-16, 21:39
Spot on now mate :thumbs:

Thanks..

Samurai 20V
12-05-18, 23:06
You have a lot of power left to gain if the AFRs really are that low. Ideally you want low-mid 11s which will give you the ideal safe power. I'm surprised it's running so rich, does it blow out a load of black smoke? How confident are you in the AFR figures?

You've got the right attitude with the dyno :thumbs:

A 2 year bump on this one..

The AFR's on these runs where all around 9.5 with 98 octane, 10:1 with 102 octane.
With 95 octane, in the 8's.

I finally found the issue as to why the car was so rich, as Scott had said before.
The pipe supplying the IACV VSV was very loose, been like this from these dyno runs. I had used a pipe from a low mileage car, but still 20 years old, so compromised.
Changed it a few weeks ago, AFR's are now 9.5 with 95 octane.

My guess is the IACV was not opening fully, car was overfuelling due to less boost reaching the intake.

With the pipe replaced, car feels awesome, on low boost its pulling hard.

Will stick it on the dyno again to see check the figures.

Celicasaur
04-05-19, 00:33
Great thread and thank you for documenting your journey.

My car is a bit rubbish/slow and although I haven't got a wideband yet, it drinks fuel like you wouldn't believe and I don't even drive it hard. I'll be sure to get the engine smoke tested and check out for any vac lines that might be amiss.