Gaz Walker Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 To be honest I can't tell you either way. It comes down to the legislation. Generally though you find that companies have more finances that an individual, they also have more comeback. The sales of Goods Act applies to everyone though although there are exceptions to some areas for business to business. I noticed you keep mentioning the SOGA - this is not applicable in this case as Ro is not a trader? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopite Posted October 19, 2007 Author Share Posted October 19, 2007 Just one question? is it fair that someone pays for something in useable condition, only to recieve it unuseable? I dont think so... No it's not Jody, the point is that that's why we have insurance. The issue I have is that the other party didn't check what they accepted, if they had there'd be NO problem at all. I'd issue a refund and claim through the couriers. But that can only happen with a court case I'd probably lose against the couriers (I've sought advice on this) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbleapple Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 But as he accepted the goods the contract was fulfilled. The goods were sold as described and were received in pieces. How do I know that they weren't damaged after delivery? I found about this a day or 2 after delivery BTW I'm not a trader. Maybe I'm being thick but why would some one damage a product they want just to get a refund. I would presume they have to send the product back to you before they get the refund so nothing is achieved? To my knowledge there is a contract of sale and therefore the Act applies but I could be wrong and if so I apologise. - I thought he was a trader TBH. Here is a link to the act anyway. http://www.johnantell.co.uk/SOGA1979.htm. Have a look at section 35(1)+(2) which deal with delivery even if it is to get an idea about how the Courts view delivery agents. My understanding of 2 (and CJ's past experiences) suggest that the Court may follow that route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2 MSW Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 Not that im condoning this just an idea, really its morally wrong but hey im sure people have though about it just not said it. Package the item up and get it sent back insured - the rest you can work out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JODY T Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 I understand Ro, but if you are honest have you checked EVERY box that has ever been delivered to you EVER? I have boxes coming out of my ears... I CANT check everyone... The party at fault here is the courier, they know the score and that 90% of the boxes delivered for what ever reason cant be checked right there and then... Thats why the have that clause so they can get out of it... But its not the buyers fault as such, the couriers rely on this! Work with the guy, I dont think its fair either looses, but better you both loose a little than one loosing a lot... In theses situations i try and 'put the shoe on the other foot' and do as much as i can to help as thats what i would hope someone would do for me.... Can the bonnet be repaired? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopite Posted October 19, 2007 Author Share Posted October 19, 2007 Maybe I'm being thick but why would some one damage a product they want just to get a refund. I would presume they have to send the product back to you before they get the refund so nothing is achieved? To my knowledge there is a contract of sale and therefore the Act applies but I could be wrong and if so I apologise. - I thought he was a trader TBH. Here is a link to the act anyway. http://www.johnantell.co.uk/SOGA1979.htm. Have a look at section 35(1)+(2) which deal with delivery even if it is to get an idea about how the Courts view delivery agents. My understanding of 2 (and CJ's past experiences) suggest that the Court may follow that route. I don't have the bonnet and have no idea what GJP did with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JODY T Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 Package the item up and get it sent back insured - the rest you can work out. Now with another courier that might just work! Obviously Ro, you will check it! Not very honest but the corporation looses rather than someone who worked hard for the £500 I dont think GJP has a leg to stand on if he cant suppl you the bonnet in the condition it was delivered.. If hes thrown it... Im afraid to say tough luck... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbleapple Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 I don't have the bonnet and have no idea what GJP did with it. Then you shouldn't refund until you get it back. Full refund for return of full product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopite Posted October 19, 2007 Author Share Posted October 19, 2007 I understand Ro, but if you are honest have you checked EVERY box that has ever been delivered to you EVER? I have boxes coming out of my ears... I CANT check everyone... The party at fault here is the courier, they know the score and that 90% of the boxes delivered for what ever reason cant be checked right there and then... Thats why the have that clause so they can get out of it... But its not the buyers fault as such, the couriers rely on this! Work with the guy, I dont think its fair either looses, but better you both loose a little than one loosing a lot... In theses situations i try and 'put the shoe on the other foot' and do as much as i can to help as thats what i would hope someone would do for me.... Can the bonnet be repaired? I do check everything yes, most recently being a PS3 - i made sure it worked etc first too. I've bought things on here that I couldn't plug in and check at the time - hey presto the item didn't work. Was a bit shit but i trusted the member at the time, didn't ask for a refund etc, just put it down to getting damaged in transport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopite Posted October 19, 2007 Author Share Posted October 19, 2007 Now with another courier that might just work! Obviously Ro, you will check it! Not very honest but the corporation looses rather than someone who worked hard for the £500 I dont think GJP has a leg to stand on if he cant suppl you the bonnet in the condition it was delivered.. If hes thrown it... Im afraid to say tough luck... I'm not doing anything like that, I'm an honest person and that'd be wrong in every sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbleapple Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 Kopite if GJP has not given you the product back then you should not refund until it arrives back. Ask for it back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkirby Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 Just been reading nightfreight's T&Cs and there terrible!! http://www.nightfreight.co.uk/FileUploads/Nightfreight%20T&C%204%20April%202006%20SEC.pdf It does state that once somethings signed for then it means you cant claim which is really shite as something may look fine but could still broken, personally i think this is a cop out. Also it looks like the bonnet was well underinsured s they only cover upto £10 per kilo so i'm guesing that the bonnet would be under 10 kilos so you would have (even if he did sign for it as damaged) never been covered enough for it!! now this is between you and the people who sent the bonnet for you to argue over as it was simply now covered even if it did get broken in transit which again is your responisibility!! Also i think theres other issues which need to be addresed ie when did it get sent? when did it arrive? when did the buyer get in touch with you to say it was damaged? if it was say in the morning of the delivery then you need to accept that it arrived damaged, if it was a week later then the buyer has to accept some responsibility? Difficult one Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shane Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 We use UPS at work, before that we used Fedex and and before that TNT. They are all a bunch of shitesters and become very slimey when it comes to claims. We sent a Spectrum analyser from Paris to London. It got smashed. No prob we thought as it was insured for £3K. But when we tried to claim we were told that the packaging we shipped it in was not good enough, despite being it's original crate it was shipped to us by the manufacturers when we bought it. We wasted so much time arguing and in the end our legal team just told us to forget it. Also, about a month ago we sent a smart card by UPS from London to Paris, it never arrived. When we chased it they first said it was in transit, but as it hadn't been delivered in the time scale set they would refund the cost. It still never arrived and when we chased again they tried to say it had never been collected from us despite their first explanation, and despite been given a consignment number. Then when we pushed further they sent a bod to our Paris office trying to say that it had been delivered but no-one there had signed for it. When we showed them that all deliveries are filmed on CCTV they backed down and said they would investigate. That was weeks ago now and we are still no further forward. Seems to me that the insurance is pretty worthless and that although the majority of shipments are ok, when it goes wrong it really goes wrong. Kopite mate just put it down to experience, try to keep the blood pressure down and see if you can work something out with the buyer. I know it stinks and is bad news but don't think you will get anywhere with the courier. If a signature had not have been given, they would have squirmed out of a claim on other grounds I would bet going by our experience with the big ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downimpact Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 Theres a lot of intersting view points in this thread... I'm afraid though the law is once it is signed for as delivered then the contract was completed. You have singed to say it is delivered in good condition and you are 'accepting' the goods. The only way to avoid this is to write down you are signing for delivery but are not signing for acceptence of the goods. It's the couriers fault it's damaged, but it's the buyers fault for not checking the goods prior to signing. Though it's a crap situation Kopite has done nothing wrong and why should he lose out? Lesson should be learn't for all please check items before signing or else only sign for delivery and specify the point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkirby Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 Theres a lot of intersting view points in this thread... I'm afraid though the law is once it is signed for as delivered then the contract was completed. You have singed to say it is delivered in good condition and you are 'accepting' the goods. The only way to avoid this is to write down you are signing for delivery but are not signing for acceptence of the goods. It's the couriers fault it's damaged, but it's the buyers fault for not checking the goods prior to signing. Though it's a crap situation Kopite has done nothing wrong and why should he lose out? Lesson should be learn't for all please check items before signing or else only sign for delivery and specify the point. sorry but i dont agree, i agree that if the delivery driver has said if he's signing for it as its been delivered in perfect condition AND the box was damaged then the buyer has to take some responsibilty for not checking it but how many items do you all check when the posty or courier deliver? i know i get quite alot of stuff and if i'm honest i often sign for it then stick it on the table and open it up later ive only ever had a few times where its been damaged or not working but its always been sorted out by the seller Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrivingTheDream Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 Not that im condoning this just an idea, really its morally wrong but hey im sure people have though about it just not said it. Package the item up and get it sent back insured - the rest you can work out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downimpact Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 sorry but i dont agree, i agree that if the delivery driver has said if he's signing for it as its been delivered in perfect condition AND the box was damaged then the buyer has to take some responsibilty for not checking it but how many items do you all check when the posty or courier deliver? i know i get quite alot of stuff and if i'm honest i often sign for it then stick it on the table and open it up later ive only ever had a few times where its been damaged or not working but its always been sorted out by the seller Mike Yeah that's the law though, in my company we are forever making sure the warehouse boys are signing and signing it's damaged and get the delivery driver to sign to that effect as well. I had to study this as part of my professional quals the onus is on the person signing to check the goods as that is when the contract is completed upon acceptance of the goods (this could even be before physical delivery of the product in some cases). The transfer of 'risk' from buyer to supplier is crucial in all contracts. Most companies will replace, refund broken deliveries out of good will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt H Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 Wheres GJP why isnt he commenting? fishy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Walker Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 how many items do you all check when the posty or courier deliver? Absolutely each and every box, even if it means they driver has to wait half an hour... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colsoop Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 I have to admit it is something i don't do. But this thread has highlighted the importance of doing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt H Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 I have to admit it is something i don't do. But this thread has highlighted the importance of doing it. Indeed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike B Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 Absolutely each and every box, even if it means they driver has to wait half an hour... we have carriage contract with nightfrieght and quite a few other courier firm. Our deliveries are mostly windsurfing boards, at 1000 pounds each. We open and double check every one; miking the driver wait. If there is small damage we sign for it and then negociate a discount from the suppling company, if major damage we refuse delivery and throw it back on the wagon. On standard nightfreight carrier contract they pay 10 pounds of every kilo of the consignment they destroy, and make it so difficult to claim (chasing up and screwing around) that it cost you the sme in time/money from the working day. It's common knowledge that all of our partner companies just swallow the loss. You can get extra insurance, but the cost is prohibative to the point that excepting the loss is cheaper overall. You have to negociate between the two of you.. depends where each of you want to be when the dust settles. TNT took 300 quid of product from me, 5 days later it was on ebay, serial number and all. I reported the crime, phoned TNT security, went the whole 9 yards and followed it with as much time as I could, even spoke to the policeman and gave him all the evidence to sort it out. Nothing ever happened. I'm afraid every time you put something on a carrier you have to be prepared for the fact that there is a 2-3% chance it will me mashed, lost or stolen; and 15% damaged - the cost of doing buiness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopite Posted October 21, 2007 Author Share Posted October 21, 2007 I've made an offer of £200 to GJP even though I don't feel I should at all. I can't get time off work etc for solicitor meetings etc and would rather spend my holidays on something more interesting. Will see what he says. Not happy about it at all to be honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJ Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 Wheres GJP why isnt he commenting? fishy Maybe he would rather not air his dirty washing in public and would prefer to settle this in court? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopite Posted October 22, 2007 Author Share Posted October 22, 2007 Dirty washing? Get a life Col. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.