grahamc Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 Wind your neck in and don't comment on any of my personal circumstances. I challenge you to prove that Turbofit screwed your car then and that it wasn't you tinkering? I don't have any proof no because I've not had an issue like this before, how many people photograph themselves packing a box to prove it was fine? At the end of the day, how do i know he didn't drop it when it was being fitted etc? I don't. No one does, I don't believe he did but if i challenged him to prove that, i doubt he could. "Wind my neck in", you asked for opinions... You made the comments. Prove it, fine... it was on the drive home from TF when the car broke down. Where would I have "fiddled" on the M25? Care to make another stupid comments? Seem to be getting mighty defensive... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopite Posted October 19, 2007 Author Share Posted October 19, 2007 I didn't pack it no as the car was 50 miles away, it was packed in the original bonnet boxes as the orders come from Japan. I only have GJP's word that it arrived damaged. How do I know he hasn't dropped it etc, the place where it was delivered too hasn't mistreated it? I don't. The reason I'm not willing to give a refund is that his signature screwed me out of any come back with the couriers. Define adequate packaging too? If someone puts a 30KG head on top of a carbon fibre bonnet in transit, would any amount of packaging help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamc Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 I didn't pack it no as the car was 50 miles away, it was packed in the original bonnet boxes as the orders come from Japan. I only have GJP's word that it arrived damaged. How do I know he hasn't dropped it etc, the place where it was delivered too hasn't mistreated it? I don't. The reason I'm not willing to give a refund is that his signature screwed me out of any come back with the couriers. Define adequate packaging too? If someone puts a 30KG head on top of a carbon fibre bonnet in transit, would any amount of packaging help? you have obviously made your mind up, sp why even bother posting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jevansio Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 Terrible situation, feel for you Ro, makes you wonder why the buyer gets so much legal backup & leaves the seller stranded . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopite Posted October 19, 2007 Author Share Posted October 19, 2007 "Wind my neck in", you asked for opinions... You made the comments. Prove it, fine... it was on the drive home from TF when the car broke down. Where would I have "fiddled" on the M25? Care to make another stupid comment? Seem to be getting mighty defensive... Not getting defensive at all, i've done nothing wrong. If anyone questions my integrity in what I've sold then i'll challenge them yes. Might have fiddled on the services with something couldn't you? How do we know you didn't? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbleapple Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 The reason I'm not willing to give a refund is that his signature screwed me out of any come back with the couriers. Why? - and who says? (you are relying on the delivery agents word on this and they are hardly going to say that you can claim off them now are they) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopite Posted October 19, 2007 Author Share Posted October 19, 2007 you have obviously made your mind up, sp why even bother posting? I point you to the original post. I'm after opinions on what the general consensus is. I'm not considering a full refund at all - why the hell should i be £500 when the bonnet arrived, wasn't checked before signing - that was him accepting it as it was. Want me to draw you a picture? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbleapple Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 Terrible situation, feel for you Ro, makes you wonder why the buyer gets so much legal backup & leaves the seller stranded . Because usually the seller has insurance, has larger financial reserves etc etc etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopite Posted October 19, 2007 Author Share Posted October 19, 2007 Why? - and who says? (you are relying on the delivery agents word on this and they are hardly going to say that you can claim off them now are they) Right so I should ring them up and call them a liar? They have the signature on record still. We've requested a copy etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamc Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 Not getting defensive at all, i've done nothing wrong. If anyone questions my integrity in what I've sold then i'll challenge them yes. Might have fiddled on the services with something couldn't you? How do we know you didn't? definitely, I pull over at every service station and fiddle with the grounding wire on my fuel pump dont be stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopite Posted October 19, 2007 Author Share Posted October 19, 2007 Because usually the seller has insurance, has larger financial reserves etc etc etc So because I'm a seller I have money than the buyer? Good one. I did have insurance...WHICH WAS VOIDED WHEN HE SIGNED! As I've said, this has removed any comeback as we have chased the couriers already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopite Posted October 19, 2007 Author Share Posted October 19, 2007 definitely, I pull over at every service station and fiddle with the grounding wire on my fuel pump dont be stupid. And I jump up and down on a bonnet I'm about to sell because I'd happily risk a 100% feedback rating would I? I fail to see how you're proving that you didn;t fiddle with the pump Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbleapple Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 So because I'm a seller I have money than the buyer? Good one.. No mate I was answering as to WHY the buyer is better defended than the seller in a legal position. I wasnt refering to your situation I was answering post 54. I did have insurance...WHICH WAS VOIDED WHEN HE SIGNED! As I've said, this has removed any comeback as we have chased the couriers already. I'm suggesting that you seek legal advice on this matter as opposed to just believing that the delivery agent states the situation is. For example, the fact that they claim the insurance may be void if the customer signs might not be viewed as fair in the commercial courts. If they damaged your product then they are negligent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jevansio Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 Because usually the seller has insurance, has larger financial reserves etc etc etc So are all these court cases you mention all geared up against the little man against a big corp, are the rules different when it's a trade between 1 little man & another? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopite Posted October 19, 2007 Author Share Posted October 19, 2007 For example, the fact that they claim the insurance may be void if the customer signs might not be viewed as fair in the commercial courts. If they damaged your product then they are negligent. But then why is it my responsilbilty to take them to court for that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbleapple Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 So are all these court cases you mention all geared up against the little man against a big corp, are the rules different when it's a trade between 1 little man & another? To be honest I can't tell you either way. It comes down to the legislation. Generally though you find that companies have more finances that an individual, they also have more comeback. The sales of Goods Act applies to everyone though although there are exceptions to some areas for business to business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozz Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 I do sort of see where you are coming from - he signed therefore its his fault. But, consensus of opinion seems to be you are morally obliged to offer some form of refund. Also, opinion seems to suggest that legally you are going to lose as the signature (which is the basis of your arguement) is not legally binding. If you really object on moral grounds then why not go see the CAB or a free solicitor hour and get a legal opinion? If they tell you you don't have a leg to stand on then you can refund and its closed. If they say you can fight it as you are not liable then at least you can tell that to Gary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonB Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 The sales of Goods Act applies to everyone though although there are exceptions to some areas for business to business. Actually, it doesn't as far as I know. It only applies to goods bought from a trader. I don't think there is any legal rights for people buying from an individual other than that the goods must be as described. It's caveat emptor for private sales (let the buyer beware). Apart from that, I'm staying out of this! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbleapple Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 But then why is it my responsilbilty to take them to court for that? The customers contract is with you and not the agent, he would not be able to take them to court (privity of contract). My view is whatever you do £500 is not a lot in solicitors fees. Do both of you want to spend more than the bonnet? Personally I think it is a bad situation and it would be better to come to some agreement... I dont know, can't you send a new bonnet (cheaper than a full refund?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbleapple Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 Actually, it doesn't as far as I know. It only applies to goods bought from a trader. I don't think there is any legal rights for people buying from an individual other than that the goods must be as described. It's caveat emptor for private sales (let the buyer beware). Apart from that, I'm staying out of this! I thought he was a trader? Even if he isn't the goods are not as described... (This is only my opinion, don't rely on my advice... get your own ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopite Posted October 19, 2007 Author Share Posted October 19, 2007 I do sort of see where you are coming from - he signed therefore its his fault. But, consensus of opinion seems to be you are morally obliged to offer some form of refund. Also, opinion seems to suggest that legally you are going to lose as the signature (which is the basis of your arguement) is not legally binding. If you really object on moral grounds then why not go see the CAB or a free solicitor hour and get a legal opinion? If they tell you you don't have a leg to stand on then you can refund and its closed. If they say you can fight it as you are not liable then at least you can tell that to Gary. I do object on moral grounds also as we insured the bonnet for upto £1000 with the delivery option. I'd have no problem sorting this out if a claim could be made. I'm not willing to rack up a legal bill in challenging a courier's T&C when the other party accepted the goods as they arrived. The courier's are giving no offer at all, insurance was there for a reason and was voided at the other end - why should I lose £500 for that as well as my bonnet? If anyone expects a challenge about the whole "signed for" system, I'm not doing it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopite Posted October 19, 2007 Author Share Posted October 19, 2007 The customers contract is with you and not the agent, he would not be able to take them to court (privity of contract). My view is whatever you do £500 is not a lot in solicitors fees. Do both of you want to spend more than the bonnet? Personally I think it is a bad situation and it would be better to come to some agreement... I dont know, can't you send a new bonnet (cheaper than a full refund?) But as he accepted the goods the contract was fulfilled. The goods were sold as described and were received in pieces. How do I know that they weren't damaged after delivery? I found about this a day or 2 after delivery BTW I'm not a trader. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 But then why is it my responsilbilty to take them to court for that? Because YOU are their customer, not down to the buyer. I would question the validity of them saying it 'was signed for so tough'. If that's the case then I find it odd as I've had things delivered and the invoice states that damage must be reported within 24hrs after accepting delivery, all you are doing is signing to say it's been delivered surely? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopite Posted October 19, 2007 Author Share Posted October 19, 2007 That differs with different couriers AFAIK. But the damage wasn't reported to us straight away Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JODY T Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 Im not getting into an arguement Just one question? is it fair that someone pays for something in useable condition, only to recieve it unuseable? I dont think so... However, the best way to resolve it is for both parties to do what ever they can to rectify the problem, what ever it is.. I mean how 'damaged is the bonnet? can it be repaired? The pair of you could get your heads together rather than fighting about it... get it repaired (to a sellable state Ie if its carbon, repair it an paint it) It could then be sold for as much as you can get for it to recompence your buyer.... Perhaps as everyone has had a hand in it... You not packaging it personally, and him signing without checking you could go halves on the repair... Just a thought but it would certainly fix the problem... Either way,its a shame its got to this, I hope both parties end up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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