Single Turbo Debate = BHP

[Muffleman]

I think Pig is right, most of the recent builds have had the more mature approach sensible sized turbo for good road performance.

 

Plus the rolling road Turbofit uses is known for being stingy or true, whichever way you look at it Go to somewhere like SRR you'll get another 50hp or so, and go to Thor if you're selling the car and want a printout

 

A 'GENUINE' 550bhp supra is gonna be a quick road car and leave most things for dust. Mine recently made 521hp at 1.2bar whilst Dan was mapping, but then hit another boost issue. Even at 1.2bar it is a properly quick car and leaves most things like they arent moving, surprised the hell out of a rep in a Z4M the other day

 

To me it seems as if the americans like to build drag queens and the japanese like to build rolling road cars ?

[Jurgen-Jm-Imports]

I think Pig is right, most of the recent builds have had the more mature approach sensible sized turbo for good road performance.

 

Plus the rolling road Turbofit uses is known for being stingy or true, whichever way you look at it Go to somewhere like SRR you'll get another 50hp or so, and go to Thor if you're selling the car and want a printout

 

A 'GENUINE' 550bhp supra is gonna be a quick road car and leave most things for dust. Mine recently made 521hp at 1.2bar whilst Dan was mapping, but then hit another boost issue. Even at 1.2bar it is a properly quick car and leaves most things like they arent moving, surprised the hell out of a rep in a Z4M the other day

 

To me it seems as if the americans like to build drag queens and the japanese like to build rolling road cars ?

 

 

and we go for in between best of both worlds

[Mike]

To me it seems as if the americans like to build drag queens and the japanese like to build rolling road cars ?

 

The classic, "it's American, but can it go round corners"...

[Muffleman]

and we go for in between best of both worlds

 

Yeah kinda, more that we try and go for the complete package

[wkdtime]

Im loving the Small turbo/Low boost combo with US style OTT fuelling set up for that extra piece of mind.....it gives me 500 ponies at 1.2 with AFR's in the high 10's....very safe tune.

 

I know if i want more, I can up the boost and lean it out a little and get some cams thrown in and hit the magical 600 ponies.

 

But with a stock engine, I'd rather not push the bonderies too much.

[michel lane]

I currently run a sp71gts turbo and changing to a sp71gtsdbb this week, the figures i got from Dan turner was less then i expected at the end of the day. The car goes so quick i dont really care about the figures, yes i have lag compared to the smaller turbo's, the way i look at this is that lag is only in one gear , the gear you start up spool in . Running a good 530rwhp at 1.7 bar is fine with me, i dont need anything more then this. The HP figures also relies on the tuner, if he wants to push the car without any % for failure then let him do it , i rather have that 20-30% cushion just incase one injector runs slightly lean .

 

Its also down to drivability , whats the point in having 900hp when it does not start in the morning first time nor you can go to the corner shop without having to stop and start the thing several times.

[Gazboy]

Jurgen, are the Japs using bigger turbochargers than the UK guys, or is the mystery because size for size they are making X amount more power on UK dynos?

 

Muffleman, there was a magazine review of RR's last month, they found SRR absolutely bang on with a new 100hp Ford SportKa.

[Jake]

but some of the singles we have brought in from japan

have made 530 plus on rear wheels with out any AFR issues... so a genuine 600bhp fly car..

 

the last 2 singles supras we had made [email protected] bar wheels and [email protected] bar..over 600 fly

 

When you say they made these 530+ rwhp figures, is that in the UK or when they were still in Japan?

If in the UK, where? ie which RR?

 

Reading this thread you seem to be saying that we can't make 600 hp, which isn't true. I have the supporting mods to easily run a 600+hp turbo if I wanted - I just don't want a car that's all top end and no torque. I want a fast road car not a dyno queen.

[Muffleman]

the figures i got from Dan turner was less then i expected at

 

Muffleman, there was a magazine review of RR's last month, they found SRR absolutely bang on with a new 100hp Ford SportKa.

 

Difficult without putting dynos back to back, plus lots of other factors 'on the day'. Who knows But if SRR is accurate, and it would appear it is, then maybe the one Turbofit use is a little stingy.

 

Be interesting to do a run with the same map at SRR, TF and Thor - damn long drive tho

 

I know that at the end of the day, the dyno is purely a tool for simulating engine demand to tune the ignition\fuel etc, but it is odd how the all seem to come up with different figures given that 1 lbft of torque is 1 lbft of torque.

[Rich]

I think some of the dynoes in the US are out and do over read.

 

But the reason I think they get good figures are-

 

1 . superior mappers

2. boost wound right up(like 2 bar +) and fuelling leaned right off for just the dyno run.

3. Big foook off turbos like GT47 s-this always helps:)

4. Over reading dynoes

[Gazboy]

They (americans & japanese) might also be using better gear. I was at DSA/G-Force when they were rebuilding a budget single Skyline, they took the ebay/XS power turbocharger, manifold & intercooler and threw them in a cardboard box which was destined for the skip. They put on a TurboTechnics hybrid of his orginal turbine & original Nissan manifold & intercooler and the car ran better and made more power.

 

I doubt Mufflemans car came over from Trial with a £300 turbo from ebay on it.

[Jspec Germany]

Rich is leaning (no pun intended) in the right direction and there's been a lot of very valid points in this thread along with a lot of ignorant speculative points as well. Most of the faster cars in the states are big turbo(s) running big boost with excellent maps. Yes, they're made more for straight line drags or rolling races on the highway. Most of the fun of owning a supra in the states is waiting for some retard to roll up in a built (fill in the blank with whatever vehicle) and wanna go, then watching them fade in the rearview. Drag racing is huge in the states and the Supra is very good on the strip. I find that brits prefer more well rounded cars that are reliable and will last longer for the amount of money they've invested in their cars. That's not to say by any means that they're inferior as has been implied by some. I can't speak for all of Japan, but I can tell you that they take their cars very seriously and know what they're doing (most of the time). In Okinawa, I saw a lot of highly tuned turbo'd cars that were rediculously fast. I think it just comes down to the state of tune. Oh yeah, and all of the dynos outside the UK are wrong. Great thread btw.

[johnnyknox]

impressive read i think we are a way behind the americans

 

That guy..Brad D was getting 800rwhp out of a T67 (PHR stage 2+) - with stock internals might I add!!!

 

He is an American chap...is it down to their fuel or are their rolling roads friendlier than ours?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xV40boSPYH8&mode=related&search=

[Muffleman]

That guy..Brad D was getting 800rwhp out of a T67 (PHR stage 2+) - with stock internals might I add!!!

 

Pah, Paul Wiffin got 921bhp out of a PHR Stage 2

[wkdtime]

Pah, Paul Wiffin got 921bhp out of a PHR Stage 2

 

 

Is that possible?

 

I ask becuase the stage 2 is 66mm size turbo, the Stage 2+ is the 67mm.

[Muffleman]

http://www.whifbitz.co.uk/whifsupra1.htm

 

811bhp & 642lbft torque on BP ultimate 1.7 bar boost, power produced on stage 2 turbo

921bhp & 714lbft torque on high octane fuel 2.2 bar boost, power produced on stage 2 turbo

[Gazboy]

http://www.whifbitz.co.uk/whifsupra1.htm

 

811bhp & 642lbft torque on BP ultimate 1.7 bar boost, power produced on stage 2 turbo

921bhp & 714lbft torque on high octane fuel 2.2 bar boost, power produced on stage 2 turbo

 

Good point- when the Americans and Japs talk about big bhp cars, are they on jungle juice or proper pump petrol you can buy at any any petrol station? Our members generaly don't do power runs for aviation fuel, maybe that's the key?

[Rich]

http://www.whifbitz.co.uk/whifsupra1.htm

 

811bhp & 642lbft torque on BP ultimate 1.7 bar boost, power produced on stage 2 turbo

921bhp & 714lbft torque on high octane fuel 2.2 bar boost, power produced on stage 2 turbo

 

 

Great figures, high boost and race fuel always helps.

Are those flywheel figures I take it?

[wkdtime]

Great figures, high boost and race fuel always helps.

Are those flywheel figures I take it?

 

Has to be with those numbers...

[Jspec Germany]

If you're on SF or anywhere else and they're on standard gas from the local station, it'll be indicated by the word "pump". A lot of people will dyno with both pump and race fuel in the process of tuning.

[Jurgen-Jm-Imports]

When you say they made these 530+ rwhp figures, is that in the UK or when they were still in Japan?

If in the UK, where? ie which RR?

 

Reading this thread you seem to be saying that we can't make 600 hp, which isn't true. I have the supporting mods to easily run a 600+hp turbo if I wanted - I just don't want a car that's all top end and no torque. I want a fast road car not a dyno queen.

 

 

 

think my old t88 is on here with 530 at wheels 1.4 bar with very little mods,amnot saying all singles just most seem to be 450 to 550

[Jake]

When you say they made these 530+ rwhp figures, is that in the UK or when they were still in Japan?

If in the UK, where? ie which RR?

[wkdtime]

think my old t88 is on here with 530 at wheels 1.4 bar with very little mods,amnot saying all singles just most seem to be 450 to 550

 

More importantly, what were the AFR's? A safe tune could probably see you with 40-50BHP less than an aggressive tune....personally I think it's mostly down to the lovely combination of Mapping/ECU/RR!

[Homer]

Couldn't care less about the peak bhp, thats not what makes a car fast or usable on the road. It's torque across the rev range that makes a car fast for day to day use. That means a fast spooling turbo that's going to be fully on song before 3600rpm. Name me a big bhp Supra (genuine 650+) that can do that?

 

I would never want a big, slow spooling old school Japanese turbo with 650bhp, it'd be completely unusable for me as a daily driver, and far slower on the street than a 450rwhp T61 or T67.

[Nic]

On normal roads peak hp doesn't really matter, it's the set up of the car and how well it transfers the hp to the tarmac that matters.

 

On a relatively small turbo I can spin the wheels in 3rd when accelerating at 100mph+. It's about usable power, 600hp+ Supra on the road, you're never going to use it's full potential, as you'll be spinning the wheels in most gears until you get to sillymph.