Clarkey Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 For sure Paul, totally 100% agree on the new Toyota IC. As that would be a unfair test. As would putting your IC against a CW or FMIC. As that would be silly and the test results would be meaningless. But I think the point is - Miami-GT IC Vs Used Toyota IC but in similar or slightly worse FUNCTIONAL condition - IE the 2 IC's are on a equal playing field. The scales would have to be as equal as possible. The question perhaps on some members minds might be: Ok, my SMIC is completely broken. Am I better off getting a M-GT IC .. or am I better off sourcing a 2nd hand Toyota IC in pretty good / fairly good nick ? (IE NOT broken .. as I don't want to replace my broken IC with another broken one) When we do our SW testing here at Nokia, we take 2 widgets of SW. Both widgets do the same thing, they would normally have roughly the same amount of code in them. Perhaps +/- 250 lines of code. But the 2 widgets do the same job - but in different order. Which is faster ? And the answer is not always the one with less code in it. It's the only way we can make a worthly comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonball Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 But I think the point is - Miami-GT IC Vs Used Toyota IC but in similar or slightly worse FUNCTIONAL condition - IE the 2 IC's are on a equal playing field. The scales would have to be as equal as possible. But why even bother...? WHY? There's no reason to it...just for intellectual pleasure maybe - but not in the real world... Miami-GT brand new one (that is not knackered and, one hopes, has a very long life ahead of it versus A Knackered stock one I have now (or might buy second hand!) If you have a knackered SMIC (loads of them about) the choices are 1. Toyota Replacement £1000 2. CW Replacement (lovely kit I'm sure) £650.00 3. Miami-GT Replacements £300 4. Second hand stock (!) No way Hose... you ever seen any that aint knackered? Bit like buying 2nd hand stock turbos It's a no-brainer - why even stop to think? Imagine you have a knackered horse (faithful, but limping and way past his prime) that runs at 30mph ...and someone comes along and offers you a new young colt that will run at 35mph all day long. Oh yes - you could buy another thoroughbred for 2.5/3 times as much - that might do 40mph - but you are more than happy with 35 mph? Whats the test? Lets make the young new colt lame so we can see how it might compare with our old one? Err... Hello? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 I've seen stock 2nd hand turbos sold on and work just fine more times than I've seen them instantly blow up. And it's not that great an analogy because, unlike 2nd hand turbos, a 2nd hand stock intercooler is easy to check before handing over your hard earned - do the fins flake off at the touch of a finger? Yes = avoid I see what Paul is saying but I think the list should be: 1. CW Replacement 2. Toyota Replacement 3. Second hand stock that isn't crumbling away 4. Miami-GT Replacements 5. Your currently buggered intercooler Except at £1000 I wouldn't actually have #2 as a consideration, but hey. -Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonball Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 a 2nd hand stock intercooler is easy to check before handing over your hard earned - do the fins flake off at the touch of a finger? Yes = avoid True - but a second hand one would need to come off a minimum facelift 1997+ IMHO - and I haven't seen that many of THEM around ( strange enough!) Would be interesting to see how many pre 1997 have IC's that dont crumble You pays ya money I suppose... I'll go with that list... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarkey Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 I see what Paul is saying For sure Ian, So can I. Were both Dyno runs running the exact same boost ? I don't know as I've not been able to find the charts on the BBS anymore. But stating that the HP is greater against a broken IC and good one .. and doing performance dyno runs on a broken IC against one that is in miles better condition - the test results are ... totally meaningless. I'm not sure - how many other clear & concise ways that can be spelled out ?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonball Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 But stating that the HP is greater against a broken IC and good one .. and doing performance dyno runs on a broken IC against one that is in miles better condition - the test results are ... totally meaningless. quote] Well for one it proves that it is worth changing as there is, and it is, a viable option... correct? As said before - thats all that really matters... I have put up a poll (I have put this in technical as a follow on to Ian's observations- please excuse me is this should be in another section and move accordingly) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarkey Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 Well for one it proves that it is worth changing as there is, and it is, a viable option... correct? As said before - thats all that really matters... I have put up a poll (I have put this in technical as a follow on to Ian's observations- please excuse me is this should be in another section and move accordingly) correct you're proving the ic was dead. But like ian said .. You don't need a dyno to prove that. But again .. For any dyno figures .. And tests all things should be equal. Why do we need a poll. It's simple boolean logic. 100% agree. You're proving the SMIC is dead. But like Ian said, you don't need a dyno to prove that. For any dyno figures & comparison tests ... all things should be equal. Poll ? Why do we need a Poll ? This is simple boolean logic here. I'm talking about the methods of testing your SMIC's (replacement & uprated) - NOT whether they are a broken stocker should be replaced. I really am confused - by how this simple question can be evaded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonball Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 Ahhh... but you do need a dyno - otherwise people might come up and try to say you are unethical... Ian made a point about the second hand stock SMIC being better value - to which i agreed - ergo.. lets see whether we can determine when Stock SMIC's start to crumble and when it might be safe to buy one... You have no reason, no logic and no arguement for your objections (I'm not even sure if that's what they are...?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarkey Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 Ahhh... but you do need a dyno - otherwise people might come up and try to say you are unethical... I'm assuming that's abit of banter Basically - if you can stick your finger clean through the fins and they're crumbling on your BROKEN stocker ... does that give you a clue of how bad condition your SMIC is ? Would you waste £80 odd for your cash - get a piece of paper - proving something that you already knew ? You have no reason, no logic and no arguement for your objections (I'm not even sure if that's what they are...?) Really ? I thought it was perfectly obvious. I honestly don't know how many times I can say the same thing over and over again - until you understand. Infact, I have feeling you're just being argumentative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonball Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 Errr...hang on - this is all getting too much for me... Thanks for the advertising anyway - I gotta go get a drink with and old pal - so you carry on till the men in their white coats come along m8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLicense Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 Would it be possible for us as a club, to sort this once and for all and arrange a test? If paul is willing to supply one of his SMIC's, I can supply the CW one I've got (unused so far!), and maybe it would be possible for anyone who has an interest in the matter to chip in an amount to buy a Toyota job? Personally, that's the kind of thing I'd like to see the club do with a number of components - ie exhausts, possibly turbo's etc. etc. You know the kind of thing I'm talking about. I don't think it would be too difficult to arrange. What does everyone else think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian W Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 Would it be possible for us as a club, to sort this once and for all and arrange a test? If paul is willing to supply one of his SMIC's, I can supply the CW one I've got (unused so far!), and maybe it would be possible for anyone who has an interest in the matter to chip in an amount to buy a Toyota job? Personally, that's the kind of thing I'd like to see the club do with a number of components - ie exhausts, possibly turbo's etc. etc. You know the kind of thing I'm talking about. I don't think it would be too difficult to arrange. What does everyone else think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colsoop Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 Nice idea Tony. I wonder if this club has enough influence / member base to get freebies for testing you know like you see on a lot of computer hardware forums. Companies send their products for review and testing. When done they are returned to said company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyb10supra Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 With this being my first turbo engine I'm still a bit unsure of symtoms but today I gave it full beans in 1st and felt 1st tubby then the 2nd kick but at 5k revs onwards the hard pull tailed off and seemed sluggish almost like it didn't want to rev harder. The car had been sitting for 10 min after a 40 odd mile drive allowing heat to build up i suppose. I went out later for a test drive and 3rd 4th 5th all pulled strongly through the revs and after some silly speeds I managed to open 1st up and it also was fine. After 5min of trundling along about 40 I opened up 1st gear and got the sluggishness back. I think it's heatsoak anyway, there's no missfiring, smoke or funny noises just a 13 yr old original IC. I dont have a boost gauge yet which would be handy right now. If the fins flake to the touch bin it.....put a boost gauge on your shopping list as well if your running 1.1Bar + Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonball Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 Honestly I dont have a problem with any testing...but this we have done...and it is expensive! I sell mine as a cheap alternative to a knackered stocker not as an alternative to a brand new SMIC costing 3 times as much... I have one of my larger Miami-Gt 'uprated' ones here now - lets do it with that is you want - who pays for the dyno and the Toyota one? Edit: Christian - you make the point so much why dont YOU get it on...walk the walk so to speak! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarkey Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 Christian - you make the point so much why dont YOU get it on...walk the walk so to speak! I've got no need for your cheap alternative of a knackered stocker Paul. My only issue is your questionable testing methods & misleading marketing tactics. Didn't the inital testing result in a 28 hp increase - and a boost leak was detected before ? IE - 0.9 boosting before .. 1.2 boosting after. Put the new IC on - fixed the boost leak/or completely broken stocker .. and what do you get ? Wow! 28hp because it's RUNNING MORE BOOST ... See here in this thread. So, members - before the new IC. The car was boosting to 0.9 bar. With the new IC it's boosting to 1.2 bar. Where's that extra power come from ? Because of the additional 0.3 of bar. Paul, I explained this to you - in reponse to your abit nasty PM. I said your IC's are great for a replacement - but that's all it is. And claiming that it adds HP - without proper testing ... well .. Now, do you want to continue this .. until the mod's lock this thread ? I'm quite happy to continue arguing this if you are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyb10supra Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imi Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 With my "uprated Miami-GT SMIC" I can confirm that I GAINED 10RWHP and more importantly 30 pounds of torque http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?t=76149&highlight=SMIC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLicense Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 I have one of my larger Miami-Gt 'uprated' ones here now - lets do it with that is you want - who pays for the dyno and the Toyota one? I'm saying why don't the members chip in and purchase as much as possible. To be honest, if we tested each item, it would only be on the car for what, one two maybe three dyno pulls, and then would be taken off, so could possibly be resold by the trader who supplied it possibly? At least that way they're able to re-coup as much as the cost as possible. Plus there is also the potential marketing value from participating in such a test... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonball Posted September 23, 2006 Share Posted September 23, 2006 My only issue is your questionable testing methods & misleading marketing tactics. Didn't the inital testing result in a 28 hp increase - and a boost leak was detected before ? IE - 0.9 boosting before .. 1.2 boosting after. Put the new IC on - fixed the boost leak/or completely broken stocker .. and what do you get ? Wow! 28hp because it's RUNNING MORE BOOST ... See here in this thread. quote] Unfortunately Jason only runs a second decatted Supra (not a full) - so unless anyone has heard of a 'stock' supra running 1.2 BAR - BUT there was no boost figure in the sheets... And - it's not MY testing BTW...I dont live in Geordieland! However I have asked him to retest next week - and this is happening Wednesday! Same Miami-GT SMIC V same knackered Stock SMIC I will post these up once done... get a knife and fork ready Christian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonball Posted September 23, 2006 Share Posted September 23, 2006 With my "uprated Miami-GT SMIC" I can confirm that I GAINED 10RWHP and more importantly 30 pounds of torque http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?t=76149&highlight=SMIC Thanks for pointing this out Imi objectively - nuff said really Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarkey Posted September 23, 2006 Share Posted September 23, 2006 Excellent Paul. Thank you for your co-operation. I just want to see a fair test. Doesn't everybody want to see a fair test ? At least when it comes to someone buying the kit off you Paul - you can say "It's been tested on 2 occassions. And the results - you can find here xyz." And like I said in my reply to your PM - I think for the money £300 notes is a good price. So, don't assume I'm slating them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Posted September 24, 2006 Share Posted September 24, 2006 I am selling a 'replacement' which I would say (almost certainly) may not be as effecient s a new Toyota one at £1000 (or whatever it is) Stock OEM Intercooler is a bit cheaper than that. I supply for £425 + postage. Or £375 each if you want to buy 10pcs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Posted September 24, 2006 Share Posted September 24, 2006 Toyota one at £1000 (or whatever it is) Stock OEM Toyota Intercooler is a bit cheaper than that. I supply for £429 + £45 postage. Or £385 each if you want to buy 10pcs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyb10supra Posted September 24, 2006 Share Posted September 24, 2006 Stock OEM Toyota Intercooler is a bit cheaper than that. I supply for £429 + £45 postage. Or £385 each if you want to buy 10pcs. Cracking Price Nic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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