Just how bad is the handling???

[Bobbeh]

 

Things I would look at if you're having problems are the stiffness/condition of your shocks/springs. The condition of your LSD and if it is working at all. (If you're spinning up and finding it hard to control in the dry then double check your LSD. Next thing is your tyres... are you running even pressures left to right and is the tread in good condition?

And finally check your wheel alignment if you havn't already done so.

 

Good points Aron.. also one thing to remember is a lot of the Supras people drive in this country dont even come with LSDs!

[Suprasteve]

I'm also happy to blitz around in my crappy clio when it's raining, thats not the supra's fault, but why (tries to think of a good analogy) put on your best suit when your only going for a mcdonalds - if you catch my drift.

 

I understand your point completely but unfortunately my supra drains all my cashflow as it is and therefore I can't afford a second car.

 

I just want to make this clear i'm not saying the supra is a bad handling car in bad weather, i'm just saying mine is. I've had the LSD checked it seems fine (can only go by what the machanic said), tyre pressures are equal and set at factory recommended pressures, the tyres are fairly new/good condition Eagle F1's and alignement done just recently. I can only put it down to old tired worn out suspension. I totally appreciate 300 - 400 bhp through the rear wheels needs to be introduced with care. I've driven my car for 2 years and feel very confident with its limitations and know when to expect the back end to kick out etc i can handle it (so far anyways -*touches wood*) but just wished it didn't do it!

 

Now as i've never personally driven any other supra in the rain or been driven in one i have nothing to compare with but it amazes me when i read people saying things like i've own this car for x number of years and the back kicked out the other day for the first time and took me by surprise but i managed to control it blah blah. Which again brings me back to thinking something is wrong with mine. Yes i admit i do get a little heavy on th right foot but no more than the next person and there absolutely no way on this planet i could keep up with my mate in his Evo VI and another mates skyline in the rain just not possible, different league altogether. - in the dry maybe but rain....no chance.

 

Maybe i should just except i'm a shite driver eventually i'll come to terms with it.

 

If theres a local meet in the area next i'll take someone out for a spin or vice versa, for a second opinon.

[Ian C]

With Racelogic in place I can accelerate out of junctions in the (very) wet quite cheerfully. The injectors are being cut left right and centre, yes, but the car stays on the road because the wheels aren't spinning up which says to me the handling package is there. It pulled suprisingly hard in the wet in fact, it's suprising how much grip you have if some uber box of electronics is keeping it right on the edge! It's also fantastic mit der single turbo *especially* in the wet -

 

You know, some tyres behave differently to others in the way they start to break away? Some may be snappy, some may start to progressively slide, maybe tyre choice is the issue here? P-Zero's are pretty damn good wet or dry.

 

-Ian

[chilli]

yeah definitely tyres make a huge difference. Also if you've checked the diff and alignment, what about the dampers and bushes, maybe something is worn somewhere.

 

Good to hear the RLTC is so good Ian. I would have ordered it already for this winter but funds are a tad low at the moment, its number 1 on my wish list though I think! For now I'll just be driving with caution...

[Suprasteve]

yeah definitely tyres make a huge difference. Also if you've checked the diff and alignment, what about the dampers and bushes, maybe something is worn somewhere.

 

Good to hear the RLTC is so good Ian. I would have ordered it already for this winter but funds are a tad low at the moment, its number 1 on my wish list though I think! For now I'll just be driving with caution...

 

how do you check the dampers and bushes ? is there a DIY way or do you take it to a garage ?

 

I love every aspect about the supra but this is the one area that for me lets it down. If i can solve this then i'll be a very happy man. without throwing money at it (which i don't have) i.e new suspension and RLTC i'm hoping there could be something minor thats wrong (for example the bushes) and very much cheaper to improve things.

 

Cheers

[Chiefgroover]

IF you can find someone who is expert in chassis setup try more castor on the front and set both front and rear for a little more toe out, and when tyre time comes try Bridgestone RE050.

Any big power RWD car shows up driver skill in the wet, maybe you need to learn the rules, try a track day in the wet.

[Rob]

IF you can find someone who is expert in chassis setup try more castor on the front and set both front and rear for a little more toe out, and when tyre time comes try Bridgestone RE050.

Any big power RWD car shows up driver skill in the wet, maybe you need to learn the rules, try a track day in the wet.

 

That's true, I did Brands Hatch in the pouring rain and managed to hold off a Mitsi Evo for three laps. I used to think the supra always understeered at speed until I learnt it was just me going into corners too fast.

[Suprasteve]

cheers

 

i can handle the car, i haven't got a problem with that. i would just like the stop the wheels spinning when going in a straight line (not only in the wet but also in the dry cold weather), i don't think a track day would help me i just need to fix/set up the car correctly.

 

i'll have someone check it out, then save up for new suspension/RLTC, not what i wanted to do but looks to be the only solution.

 

cheers all.

[AJI]

suprasteve.... I see trackday has been mentioned... if you haven't taken your Supra on track then I really reccomend that you do so. You can learn so much about a car on the track if you go with the attitude that you are wanting to learn your car.

A lot of peole will go to a track day only to try and get the fastest lap time or to beat their mate in another car etc. But if you go to experiment with different applications of power etc. then you can learn quite a lot. This time of year is especially good for track days.... more chance of rain !!!

 

I've just re-read you are running the yellow bilsteins... do you know if you also have stiffer springs? Any stiff setup on a car is detrimental to its wet weather performance. That is one of the reasons why I have always stuck with my stock UK-shocks/springs. Too stiff and you are always going to have problems in the wet.

When you say you spin the rears in the dry ..... is that on a smooth surface or on a bumpy 'b' class type of road? A stiff setup will always cause problems on a bumpy road also.

[terribleturner]

I think Steve's problem is going off track here (so to speak). It's not an issue of Steve don't being able to control is right foot in any given situtation, it's the fact that if anybody was to get into the car and pull away, they would get wheel hop from the car.

The shocks are factory fitted so shouldn't be that. It could be springs but i don't think it's that. what kind of checks have you had done again Steve?? Have you had someone laser align it yet??

[chilli]

It really does sound like it must be either an LSD problem (you sure they checked it correctly), a tyre problem or some other suspension problem, either that or somehow you are making massive power lol

 

I wonder if one of your dampers has died, that might cause bad handling and grip, they should be easy enough to check

[Suprasteve]

This is the set up and what i've had done/checked

 

-17" stock wheels

-Eagle F1s (fairly good condition) all balanced and set to correct pressures

-Yellow Blistein optional extra shocks (12 years old now, looks original)

-Very stiff suspension (although I've not compared to any other supra)

-Running BPU @ 1.2Bar = 400 BHP ?!??!

-2nd turbo does kick in aggressively

-Machanic checked the LSD, was told it was ok but only a regular machanic not specialist

-Wheel alignment done

-Mainly happens on B roads, generally ok on A roads and motorways but does happen

 

I would love to do a track day to learn more, well up for that. Agreed i could definately learn more about the handling etc but i do think the issue is with the car and not necessary me.

 

So to stop the wheel hop i need to change the Bushes ?

and to help grip on bad english bumpy roads in wet i need softer springs?

Also if the shocks are old a tired they could be the problem.

 

shall i change the parts in that order ? is that the cheapest way ?

[Chiefgroover]

This is the set up and what i've had done/checked

 

-17" stock wheels

-Eagle F1s (fairly good condition) all balanced and set to correct pressures

-Yellow Blistein optional extra shocks (12 years old now, looks original)

-Very stiff suspension (although I've not compared to any other supra)

-Running BPU @ 1.2Bar = 400 BHP ?!??!

-2nd turbo does kick in aggressively

-Machanic checked the LSD, was told it was ok but only a regular machanic not specialist

-Wheel alignment done

-Mainly happens on B roads, generally ok on A roads and motorways but does happen

 

 

A few points that ring alarm bells with me are

Very stiff suspension, on UK roads this wont help, maybe you have looney spring rates.

Wheel alignment can look fine but its Castor and camber you need sorted, try CW.

Second turbo coming in, try easing the throttle back a little at this point and re plant it at 5K rpm.

B roads, when road is uneven with big power and 2WD your throttle is a steering device just like your steering wheel. Once mastered this can be put to great advantage.

It is extremely unwise to try holding the throttle at the floor and trying to sort all with the steering wheel, you do that maybe with 150BHP but not 400!.

[Chris Wilson]

Very stiff back springs and lowering = no traction. The cars love a soft, progressive rear spring set up, with damping that suits the cars suspension characteristics and weight transfers. Put it on stock springs and try it then.

[SuperSupra]

Crikey, i started this thread on saturday, haven't looked since sat aft and just looked now! Looks like it's quite a hot topic when it comes to handling of the Supra!!! I have to say, that despite what people say, i find the handling (yes, i know it's only a N/A) pretty reasonable.

 

On another related topic, the brakes in the wet are phenomenal as i found on friday night. A knob head Audi driver (gee there's a surprise) pulled out in front of me before slamming on because he didn't see the driver in front of him was turning right! There's me, expecting to become very well acquainted with the rear end of this black audi, when i start braking, and instant grip, in a matter of 2-3 seconds i'm stopped. Awesome for such a huge car. Round of applause for Toyota :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

[Ian C]

I've been messing with my G-Tech Pro g meter thingy and I got 0.67G acceleration in 2nd gear with the RLTC having an embolism controlling it, slight left hand bend but a bit downhill as well. Nothing concrete yet but I think 2/3rds of a G is pretty good grip for RWD + 1600kg isn't it?

 

Braking was 0.99G Cornering I haven't seen past 0.85G yet, I think I was about to get understeer which would be a bit shit I need decent weather and a clear roundabout or two...

 

-Ian

[neo1]

My one is like a limpet in the dry

 

In the wet it's err, well.... Thats why i also have a Pug 106

 

Depends, if its been raining for a couple of days its fine but it really doesnt like the greasy roads a quick downpoor creates.

[Syed Shah]

What model G-tech you got Ian?

[Suprasteve]

Very stiff back springs and lowering = no traction. The cars love a soft, progressive rear spring set up, with damping that suits the cars suspension characteristics and weight transfers. Put it on stock springs and try it then.

 

cheers Chris

 

I'll try this first, i've put a post in the wanted section for UK standard rear springs (been told these are softer than Jap ones?)

 

I suppose this is the cheapest way to do things ? do you think fitting them is a DIY job or do i have to take it somewhere ?

 

Also If i change the "bushes" (?) will this reduce/stop wheel hop ? is this something that i can buy from Toyota ?

[Chris Wilson]

cheers Chris

 

I'll try this first, i've put a post in the wanted section for UK standard rear springs (been told these are softer than Jap ones?)

 

I suppose this is the cheapest way to do things ? do you think fitting them is a DIY job or do i have to take it somewhere ?

 

Also If i change the "bushes" (?) will this reduce/stop wheel hop ? is this something that i can buy from Toyota ?

 

If the shocks and springs are OK it won't hop. If you have stiffer / lower springs all round you should cahnge them ALL, not just the rears. DIY'able? Depends on what tools you have and your patience i guess. Will need aligning afterwards though.