10 30 Quantum

[Frank Bullitt]

This one at a guess - https://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-115239-millers-oils-nanodrive-cfs-10w-50-nt-full-synthetic-engine-oil.aspx

[Tricky-Ricky]

I don't agree with the use of two and three viscosity's over std just because the motor is BPU or single, i would like to know just what peoples reason for using those grades other than my tuner recommended it,

I have no problem with going 10w40 rather than 10w30 but why go so thick, even with a big single the RPM is generally not increased, and IMO all it does is put extra strain on the oil pump and PRV as its harder to pump and will result in the PRV opening a lot of the time, and not to mention the extra strain on the pump rotors and crank drive.

[Sheefa]

That's a fair point Tricky and valid. I've just bumped another older and still relevant oil thread in chat section.

 

Looks like the recommendation is as you say 10w-40 but also 10w-50 from Simon at Opie Oils.

 

In a previous thread he mentions checking the OATS database with the recommendations being:

 

Engine oil viscosity recommendations (prior to model year 2000): 10W-30, 10w-40, 10W-50, 15W-40, 15w-50, 20W-40, 20W-50. 20w is better for warmer climates than the UK. The important thing is sae 30,40 and 50 are recommended, not sae 60. This info is from OEM. If the older vehicle is in good nick then no need to change the recommended viscosity.

 

He then goes on to say....

 

"Mods are a different thing and generally it depends on the engine temps that you are running. Synthetic oils that contain pao/ester have much better thermal stability than petroleum oils so you can still use lower viscosities like 5w-40 or 10w-40 keeping the oil within the manufacturers specs without suffering from the oil thinning within a couple of thousand miles. This is why the oil also lasts longer. This is a real email that I have permission to publish but names witheld and it illustrates the point I'm making about low viscosity synthetics in stressed applications. Basically the quality of the oil is the key here and it's fair to say you get what you pay for always as decent oils cost more money to make".

 

I run a big single and fully forged engine so have had on numerous occasions the 10w-60 recommended to me, from Traders and Tuners, which has worked flawlessly in the few years I've had the Supra. Therefore that's what I'll continue to run.

 

Cheers

 

 

[Sheefa]

This one at a guess - https://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-115239-millers-oils-nanodrive-cfs-10w-50-nt-full-synthetic-engine-oil.aspx

Yes that's the one.

 

 

[Fulcrum2000]

So tricky you seem to agree with Miller's 10 40 recommendation at bpu?

[Frank Bullitt]

I don't agree with the use of two and three viscosity's over std just because the motor is BPU or single, i would like to know just what peoples reason for using those grades other than my tuner recommended it,

I have no problem with going 10w40 rather than 10w30 but why go so thick, even with a big single the RPM is generally not increased, and IMO all it does is put extra strain on the oil pump and PRV as its harder to pump and will result in the PRV opening a lot of the time, and not to mention the extra strain on the pump rotors and crank drive.

 

Didn’t oilman provide the forum recommendations based on his knowledge and understanding?

[bignum]

It depends what you use the car for as to what weight oil to use, everyday use with the odd spirited blast i`d go 10/40 then track use or extended fast driving which is likely to put more heat into the oil go 10/50 or 60, you need a decent oil temp gauge to be able to determine what category you fit into. Oil temps over 120c for any period of time 10/50 is recommended .or 60.

[Fulcrum2000]

So what we're saying is people are using 10 50+ as a belt and braces approach for the odd time on the track but day to day driving with some of the beans some of the time Millers 10 40 recommendation is right? I dont mind paying extra for 10 50 or 10 60 but Tricky raises a good point - unless you're going hell for leather all the time doesnt the thicker oil just put more of a strain on your oil system as oppose to protecting it? I mean I have a brand new oil pump now yes, but one designed to pump 10 30 oil as we all do I imagine.

 

I'm not in any way having a go at anyone please dont misunderstand, I just want to make the right choice to protect my car and whilst asking this forum I've done loads of internet searching and the only people (other than on here) recommending anything higher than 10 40 for a Supra seem to be people who sell oil and would make more profit on the more expensive oils. To explain my train of thought I am a business owner and I always look at such things in this frame of mind, however unlike some of the members on here I am certainly not a mechanic so need to bow to the wisdom of those who are!

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

So what we're saying is people are using 10 50+ as a belt and braces approach for the odd time on the track but day to day driving with some of the beans some of the time Millers 10 40 recommendation is right? I dont mind paying extra for 10 50 or 10 60 but Tricky raises a good point - unless you're going hell for leather all the time doesnt the thicker oil just put more of a strain on your oil system as oppose to protecting it? I mean I have a brand new oil pump now yes, but one designed to pump 10 30 oil as we all do I imagine.

 

I'm not in any way having a go at anyone please dont misunderstand, I just want to make the right choice to protect my car and whilst asking this forum I've done loads of internet searching and the only people (other than on here) recommending anything higher than 10 40 for a Supra seem to be people who sell oil and would make more profit on the more expensive oils. To explain my train of thought I am a business owner and I always look at such things in this frame of mind, however unlike some of the members on here I am certainly not a mechanic so need to bow to the wisdom of those who are!

[Tricky-Ricky]

It depends what you use the car for as to what weight oil to use, everyday use with the odd spirited blast i`d go 10/40 then track use or extended fast driving which is likely to put more heat into the oil go 10/50 or 60, you need a decent oil temp gauge to be able to determine what category you fit into. Oil temps over 120c for any period of time 10/50 is recommended .or 60.

 

You see that's what i have a problem with, i was not aware that any decent fully synthetic of any grade would take any higher temps, AFAIK they all are pretty capable of dealing with higher temps than mineral anyway, i ran a semi synthetic 10w40 in my single and never saw any temps over 117C and the oil was capable of dealing with 130c with no problem, now that temp was recorded with no oil cooler fitted, OK it was road work but occasionally driven hard, once a cooler was fitted i never saw more than 110c.

 

Now going on the premises that thicker oil can deal with higher temps better without thinning what is a 10w50 or 10w60 max temp range? as all synthetic oils are meant to take much higher temps before breaking down, so what the advantage of going higher viscosity as in theory all grades of that type should have the same resistance to shear and temps, we all know that oil thinning can lead to lower oil pressures but as the 2JZ pump is more than capable of providing a decent pressure (even when fooked as mine proved) so why the need for thicker? as i said all i can see is the PRV working overtime and more load on the pump especially at higher RPM.

Anyone care to give their oil pressure and temps at higher loading/RPM and the grade of oil used, just in the interests of discussion and to get a clearer picture?

[Sheefa]

Anyone care to give their oil pressure and temps at higher loading/RPM and the grade of oil used, just in the interests of discussion and to get a clearer picture?

 

Full single turbo and built engine running 800fwhp.

 

Millers 10w-60 Nanodrive Fully Synthetic Oil

Oil temp on general cruising in this weather 100-105c

Hard driving with long periods on boost around 110-115c Max.

 

I have an oil cooler fitted too.

 

Pressure was around 5-7 from memory but will check on next run.

 

Greg

 

 

[Tricky-Ricky]

Thanks Greg, so 72 to 100PSI but at what sort of RPM?

[Sheefa]

I'll have to check when I head out at some point one evening this week as wouldn't want to give false info. I'll do a few tests.

 

 

[bignum]

10/50-60 is generally said to give better protection in the bearings especially in harsh environment.

[Sheefa]

Thanks Greg, so 72 to 100PSI but at what sort of RPM?

 

Did some testing yesterday. Cold start generally around 7-8 bar whilst getting warmed up. I then went down the dual carriageway for 10 mins on mild cruising and oil pressure between between 5-7 at around 3k rpm. At high RPM (6-7k) and full boost I see 8-9 bar. A cool down and then back idling on the drive pressure between 4-5 bar in the main.

 

Cruising oil temp 90-95 degrees.

Cruising water temp 88 degrees.

[Tricky-Ricky]

Thanks Greg, that very similar to the pressures i was getting using a 10w40, although i have never seen sustained pressures much over 100psi which is what i think the std PRV is set at, 116 to 130 seems a little excessive.

[Sheefa]

Thanks Greg, that very similar to the pressures i was getting using a 10w40, although i have never seen sustained pressures much over 100psi which is what i think the std PRV is set at, 116 to 130 seems a little excessive.

Yes hard to accurately monitor when flying on boost mind [emoji16] I have a modified oil pump so don't know if that changes things?

 

 

[Tricky-Ricky]

If its Titan or PHR the only difference is that they claim to be std but ported, but this can only increase flow if the corresponding oil galleries are opened up as well, and AFAIK they still use the std PRV springs so shouldn't produce any more pressure, which isn't always a good thing as i outlined earlier.

My pump was PHR which at that point was not even ported, just the excess oil drain enlarged, and they are supposed to be fettled and parts matched, but mine was locked up solid when it arrived and had to be dismastled and rechecked to get it to turn smoothly, so IMO a std pump and open the drain is all that's needed.

[Fulcrum2000]

So as the OP, its looking to me like with actual testing in a BPU car 10 40 and 10 50/60 synths are working identically all but tiny variations? So to answer the original question I should buy 10 40 Millers CFS or Fuchs, semi if I'm changing every 6 months and synth if I'm doing it once a year as synth degrades more slowly. Is what I've taken from more experienced oil users correct or is my logic flawed?

 

I think most of us with Supras will just be driving them around and giving it occasional beans so taking that as a benchmark Swampy/Tricky seem to be right, there's just no advantage to putting a totally different grade of oil in a car thats not recommended for it by the people who designed the engine itself? I spoke to a guy at AT, the local tuning firm about putting 10 50 in it and he just looked at me and said 'Why would you do that?' And he has a racing team.

[Mike2JZ]

You need to remember that 5w30/10w40 recommendations from the OEM are for the engine when it was released fresh out the factory 25 years ago. In that time there is wear on bearings, rings & lubrication system components, power increase modifications, sluge in oil feed/returns, DIY rebuilds etc, poor servicing etc.

 

Sometimes the manufacturer's recommendation is not suited for an engine that is suffering from one of the above factors. This is how the selection of oil for your car is subjective, because every engine and it's conditions are different. I've see loads of JZ's that have been run on anything from 5w30 to 20w60, across a variety of applications (daily driver, drift car etc)

 

To try and make the best decision you need to apply some science and observation work. Ideally you need to be able to monitor Oil Temperature & Oil Pressure, then add in factors like environmental temperature, how am I driving this engine, what's oil consumption like, how long it takes for oil to turn thin/black etc.

 

Only with the above data and experimenting with oils can you find out what truly seems to work best for your car, what service routine it requires and what weight oils are required.

 

This doesn't happen overnight as I'm sure you can imagine, and most people won't be bothered to do this. Otherwise just bang some 10w40 in it and forget about it lol, getting hung up over oil recommendations of what he/she said on an internet forum is a pointless exercise.

[Tricky-Ricky]

So as the OP, its looking to me like with actual testing in a BPU car 10 40 and 10 50/60 synths are working identically all but tiny variations? So to answer the original question I should buy 10 40 Millers CFS or Fuchs, semi if I'm changing every 6 months and synth if I'm doing it once a year as synth degrades more slowly. Is what I've taken from more experienced oil users correct or is my logic flawed?

 

I think most of us with Supras will just be driving them around and giving it occasional beans so taking that as a benchmark Swampy/Tricky seem to be right, there's just no advantage to putting a totally different grade of oil in a car thats not recommended for it by the people who designed the engine itself? I spoke to a guy at AT, the local tuning firm about putting 10 50 in it and he just looked at me and said 'Why would you do that?' And he has a racing team.

 

No testing needed fella, your worrying too much, you will get various recommendations as to what oil to put in the motor, as everyone will have their own idea as to whats best, some because some tuner recommended it some because they understand the engine,

My interest was mostly based on how the oil system handles the higher viscosity oils that seem to be the favorite these days, as i have said all along just put in some known make 10w40 semi or fully synthetic and change every 6k miles/six months and don't worry, my only must have recommendations are an oil pressure gauge and oil temperature gauge especially since you have already become paranoid due to the FMS failure, which is understandable, after mine i also fitted a super bright LED to the oil level indicator, which is what saved my engine.

[Fulcrum2000]

Yes I'm going to go 10w 40 Tricky Millers seems to actually be better than many others and not just have an out there name to make it seem so when you look into it, ie Zinc level etc. As a final question, does anyone know why Millers has 2 10 40s recommended for GTEs? Ie the black and silver bottles, which one are we using? Silver seems to indicate more cold start protection but it might just be a rebadge? Are we black or silver users out there?

 

I've got the AEM Wideband Tricky, thats being fitted later this month, guess I need to look into an oil pressure gauge too and consider where the heck its going to go on the dashboard!

 

And Mike2JZ - I totally respect what you're saying too, not glossing over it, just thinking as the way forward for me as a second car supra set up is to go with a decent 10 40 synth and job done. I have my oil changed each year and the car only does about 1500 miles a year as I also have a 535D that does all the real work.The comparison in reliability between the two is simply staggering, the difference being I've owned that car for years and been in charge of the servicing I guess let alone the Supra being a decade older.