Scott Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 Front grill is incredibly tacky, front end too fussy in general. Wheels terrible, and too big. Wing mirrors look like they're on some crappy little stalk. And why is the windscreen higher than the side windows? But if they do make it, it'll not look anything like that anyway... That's pretty much my thoughts on it also. The general shape and look has potential though. It just needs seriously toned down and designed in one go rather than each person taking a side/angle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbourner Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 Why so much hate for Hybrids? We're nearly 20 years from the MKIV, a few years earlier we had turbo F1. Now F1 cars have hybrid systems like KERS and DRS, maybe the next Supra should have a hybrid system, and adjustable wings like most new super/hypercars seem to have. It could still have the 3.5 twin turbo, use an extra hybrid battery for weight distribution, couple of 80BHP motors on the front wheels and a button on the dash that activates them over 20MPH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 Why so much hate for Hybrids? We're nearly 20 years from the MKIV, a few years earlier we had turbo F1. Now F1 cars have hybrid systems like KERS and DRS, maybe the next Supra should have a hybrid system, and adjustable wings like most new super/hypercars seem to have. It could still have the 3.5 twin turbo, use an extra hybrid battery for weight distribution, couple of 80BHP motors on the front wheels and a button on the dash that activates them over 20MPH. I don't mind the concept but I've always enjoyed working on my cars. At first a service was my limit but now I would have no issues with dropping the engine down to nothing and building it back up. I would be worried that this option would be taken away from me entirely and I would need to rely on *cringe* dealerships. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garethr Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 You can forget about any Supra descendant being over-engineered, though. The 2JZ is a throwback to the days of slide-rules rather than computers - a company and engineers with something to prove (after the 7M) adding "a little bit for luck" to everything in their design. A 3JZ-GTE would be finite-element designed for its standard power output (and to keep the EU and the EPA happy). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbourner Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 I don't mind the concept but I've always enjoyed working on my cars. At first a service was my limit but now I would have no issues with dropping the engine down to nothing and building it back up. I would be worried that this option would be taken away from me entirely and I would need to rely on *cringe* dealerships. You can forget about any Supra descendant being over-engineered, though. The 2JZ is a throwback to the days of slide-rules rather than computers - a company and engineers with something to prove (after the 7M) adding "a little bit for luck" to everything in their design. A 3JZ-GTE would be finite-element designed for its standard power output (and to keep the EU and the EPA happy). From the GT-86 it looks as though they're already going strongly against the Nissan grain and allowing as much modifying and fiddling as they can - even to the point of keeping the warranty with certain tweeks I believe? No reason to think a new Supra wouldn't be the same, you'd have to learn a bit about some new stuff if it does have hybrid tech but that's no big deal really, I'm sure within 6 months most of the guys on here would be more knowledgeable than dealers anyway. As for over Engineering, I think that may be an issue as everything is precise to keep to a budget. Would you prefer an over Engineered car that costs 120k, but can handle 1300BHP, or would you want a safe 550BHP car for 80k? More importantly, what would 99% of the public choose! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garethr Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 Re: over-engineering... http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?260238-And-so-it-begins-Project-R35-GTR900 The days of casually doubling an engine's power output are well and truly over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellis Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 I think the problem with creating a successor so long after the last Supra was made (2002) has real pitfalls. BMW tried it with the Mini purely as a marketing exercise and, whilst it was a sales success, the original Mini created by Sir Alec Issigonis had a defined brief to work to and at the time was a marvel of form and function. The original had bags of charm and character, was practical beyond words and brimmed with new technology. The new BMW version just rode on the coat tails of the original whilst embracing none of the original's reasons for being. Just throwing a Mini face on a bog standard characterless Euro hatch is cynical accountancy at its worst. Same for the new Beetle. The reason the original E30 M3 was created was to create a road-going racer essentially and, again, it had a purpose, it had a character and it had a soul. Ever since then all M3s since have been beaten to death with the 'but it's not like the original' stick and some would argue that they're right. They've all been great cars but none have captured the essence of the original. Porsche have always had the right idea with the 911 in that it has pretty much stuck to it's roots and been honest to Erwin Komenda's original design (yes, he did design the look, not Ferdinand Porsche as is always stated!). Plus it has stayed in production continuously since it's birth and has evolved gradually. And here lies the problem with creating a spiritual successor to the Supra. It's been too long now, the momentum has died off and anything they produce now will end up (probably) as a diluted version of what it could have been if they'd produced in in 2003. The purists will bemoan all of the technology that it will no doubt carry will make the driving experience anodine, the driver feeling unconnected to the road etc too much assistance and not enough seat-of-the-pants real man driving! (Datsun GTR anyone?!) The beauty of the MKIV is that the TRC was so crap (and I think they might have done it intentionally!) that nearly everybody turns it off so that you have to drive the car. It rewards good driving and punishes those that show it little respect. Somebody before mentioned that as well as being a supercar it could be, and is, used as an everday car being with it being so beautifully over engineered. A point often overlooked when you stack it against it's competitors of the day. You couldn't run a Ferrari 348 of that era every day without it going in for services every 2,000 miles or so. So the question would be, how do you follow the Supra now? What should it do? What would be the benchmark car it has to beat? The GTR? It's a computer-laden tour-de-force that showcases technology but does it have a soul? Is it the car the Supra would have been? I think that it would be a mistake to try and create a successor because, like the original M3, it simply can't be bettered. Time to let the Supra sleep I think and it's probably for the best! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lbm Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 Keep those posts (and the coffee) coming Ellis. Nicely written Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbourner Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 That's all well and good, assuming they're going to name it Supra. I thought we were using that name so we all knew what future car we were talking about. They could quite happily bring out the Toyota Mango, the all new Toyota supercar to rival the Audi RS5 Coupe, 2+2 sports coupe, 4l V8 TT 550BHP, £55k OTR. No mention of Supras needed, it can be a totally new car and still have the awesomeness of the MKIV Supra. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imi Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 http://images.pistonheads.com/nimg/24915/LexusConcep02.jpg New 2+2 leaked from lexus ahead of the detroit show... and toyota have said they want to do a supra and a new mr2... http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/news/default.asp?storyId=24915 Front looks really ugly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abz Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 Keep those posts (and the coffee) coming Ellis. Nicely written Ditto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastcar Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 The thing is, when Toyota designed and produced the Supra, they did it in response to the Nissan 300ZX (as the car they were going to produce was scrapped when they heard about the Nissan) and what they produced was something that, even 18 years after its release, is still considered pretty unique and uncompromising, taking all aspects of the 300 into consideration and blowing it out of the water. It encompassed technology that was not seen in many cars of that era and bucked the trend in that it was astronomically expensive for a Toyota (about £37K for a UK spec in 93 and £42K in 96) which put it in a territory and market far beyond anything that Toyota had produced before (and since). The LFA is only similar in the pricing but, to many (and me included) just seems like a stupidly expensive Nissan GTR wannabe and jumping on a bandwagon that arrived at the station an hour after most people had left. To produce a true successor to the Supra, Toyota, to my mind, need to revisit the mindset of 1992 and throw some caution to the wind. Be daring, be different, be controversial and design a car that encompasses everything that the Supra was (and is). A GT, cross-continent, cruiser that looks stunning, goes like stink, is focused on the driver (and driving, even if corners were always a talking point) and raises 2 fingers to the PC, lentil-chewing, hybrid-loving, ozone-protecting ne'er do wells that seem to govern most aspects of our lives. In 1993 the Supra looked like nothing else on earth. Even today, it still drops jaws. The LFA doesn't do that and never will. It's too dull. The Supra has soul, character, identity and an attitude. Nothing they have produced since has any of that because they're too scared of upsetting the Daily Mail-type masses that say we're killing the planet. And until Toyota is driven by designers and engineers again, and not by accountants, the MKV Supra will always be an automotive fantasy. Praise the lord Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastcar Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 I would have to agree with Ellis on both accounts. How do you improve on perfection. The supra is all about man and machine no gadgets to keep it on the road just the driver. For a new supra to rule again it would have to loaded with tech you would then just be a passenger not apart of the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lude Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 never too late to do a mark 5, im sure the R34 fans thaught it was the end until Nissan made the R35, that was a good few years gap. Nissan made the R35 an amazing car and lived up to the name, If Nissan could do it, im sure Toyota could Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbourner Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 The GTR isn't an R35, that's how they got around the marketing and mindset problems of a late renewal of a brand. Maybe the MKV will be a Toyota TT - not sure what Audi will think of that though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abz Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 The GTR isn't an R35, that's how they got around the marketing and mindset problems of a late renewal of a brand. Maybe the MKV will be a Toyota TT - not sure what Audi will think of that though! Toyota recently resigned the name didn't they? Hopefully they will keep it inline. Quite a few cars have been out of production & then reborn again... Mini, Beetle, Scirocco to name a few. It is a good name & as mentioned I'd imagine it would be a £70k car, wouldn't expect any less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supra Gaz Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 Am i the only one that thinks it is quite striking and cool? I love the idea of a next generation Supra, i think the hops of a 3JZ GTE or similar may be hopeless, Toyota seems to have a fairly strong engine line up through the Toyota / Lexus line up, if they feel one of the current line up is not suitable i can see them using an outside company's power-plant and do a co-operation with another competitor, ie GT86 / BRZ agreement. With Toyota finally waking up and starting to look to building fun cars again i can see a new Supra, but i think it will reflect the times and be more focused to a good power to weight ratio and hybrid technology rather than be a technological power house like the GTR. Toyota certainly have the talent, technology and people to build a GTR beater, it is more about whether the investors will be as interested. Any powerful Toyota i can now se wearing a Lexus badge, where the price is seen as more acceptable. Im looking forward to seeing what happens though! Oh and i do remember hearing that Toyota bought back the rights to the name Supra while back from a bloke who works for a company that produce key locks called 'Supra'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus GTE Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 The contribution from Ellis was great. It reminded me of someone though. Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adnanshah247 Posted December 26, 2011 Share Posted December 26, 2011 Ellis, marry me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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