Tesco 99Ron

[JohnA]

yes, especially if you live near the refinery (remember that only selected Shell garages stocked it initially? The distance from the refinery was a major factor, special preparation of their tanks was another)

 

Also it's best to ask when they've just had a new delivery and fill up then (use it quickly too, don't wait for weeks)

You'd probably have over 97RON in that case.

People from scoobynet etc actually do this, it's not exaggeration.

 

But with this Tesco fuel certified for 99RON I see no contest really

[CJ]

that's why tuners of very high performance 'street' turbos like to map on SUL and not optimax, because it's more consistent

 

I am confused here What makes SUL at 97 ron more stable than Optimax at 98 ron? Is there a different ingredient in optimax that makes it less stable than the other SUL fuels available?

[JohnA]

well, yes mate.

These fuels are made to a specification depending on the weather, government regulation and such.

So each company varies their recipe, trying to achieve their goal at the lowest possible production cost.

 

If you want consistency (among others) then you buy race fuel

[CJ]

well, yes mate.

These fuels are made to a specification depending on the weather, government regulation and such.

So each company varies their recipe, trying to achieve their goal at the lowest possible production cost.

 

If you want consistency (among others) then you buy race fuel

And how do you know for sure that Optimax degrades worse than others? Has anyone done definitive tests?

[Ian C]

This also seems odd that of all the super unleaded fuels, all of them are brill and perfectly stable, even Tesco own brand, except Optimax that loses a staggering 40 points in a few hours. If this is the case then a) Shell dropped the ball big time, b) Shell haven't sampled competitor products in over 4 years and figured out where they went disasterously wrong, and c) Shell are pissing money away adding volatiles that are so volatile they aren't there after a few days

 

And taken from Shell:

"Shell Optimax is an unleaded, high octane fuel"

And taken from ASA:

"The Authority obtained expert advice. It understood that the evidence supplied by the advertisers showed that changing to a higher octane fuel could create a small but variable increase in the power and acceleration in some, but not all, cars"

 

However, you are right in that they dance around nailing down a specific octane figure Conspiracy theory back from the dead

 

I've written to Shell customer services, we will see if we get an answer, ignored, or a weaselly-worded reply

 

-Ian

[JohnA]

This also seems odd that of all the super unleaded fuels, all of them are brill and perfectly stable, even Tesco own brand,

'own brand', lol, do you really believe that Tesco have built refineries all of a sudden?

They just use part of the existing production, like everyone else (even the 'big' oil companies exchange truckloads behind the scenes, it's the marketing that varies mainly mate)

except Optimax that loses a staggering 40 points in a few hours.

It takes several days, not hours.

Depends on several factors, too, if it is in hermetically sealed, cool containers it will not degrade like that. Neither will any other fuel.

If this is the case then a) Shell dropped the ball big time,

They've dropped it before, I don't know if you're old enough to remember.

They had to retract their 'special formula' fuel after an avalanche of lawsuits from angry customers who lost their engines

b) Shell haven't sampled competitor products in over 4 years and figured out where they went disasterously wrong,

They produce the best unleaded fuel in the market, just as they claim

and c) Shell are pissing money away adding volatiles that are so volatile they aren't there after a few days

As above, they only guarantee 95RON, so what's the problem? They still meet that BS specification.

And taken from Shell:

"Shell Optimax is an unleaded, high octane fuel"

It is.

Compared to other, lower octane fuels (that may or may not be available in the UK market )

However, you are right in that they dance around nailing down a specific octane figure Conspiracy theory back from the dead

There is nothing conspiratory about this.

Just plain business practice, blended with normal marketing-talk.

It's everywhere mate, not just Shell marketing.

 

It's called using 'weasel' words.

Like those overpriced facial creams: "significantly reduces the appearance of facial lines"

I.e.

Quantify 'significant' (to us, .00001% is significant)

Quantify 'reduces' (.00001% again)

Define 'appearance' (what appears to ME may appear differently to YOU, it is subjective)

Define 'facial lines' (note they now avoid saying 'wrinkles')

[CJ]

And how do you know for sure that Optimax degrades worse than others? Has anyone done definitive tests?

Did you miss this? Also, You never really answered Ian's point that all the SUL's except Optimax are stable. That cannot be right surely?

[JohnA]

Did you miss this?

Maybe you missed my other post earlier on this thread.

 

Translation: get yourself a feken KnockLink (or mgt that can log knock signals) and see for yourself, so you don't have to rely on others for 3rd hand stale info. How's that?

[CJ]

Maybe you missed my other post earlier on this thread.

 

Translation: get yourself a feken KnockLink (or mgt that can log knock signals) and see for yourself, so you don't have to rely on others for 3rd hand stale info. How's that?

So, are you saying that the definitive evidence is based on your 3rd hand stale information? If so, then it is hardly definitive and scientific eh?

[CJ]

Maybe you missed my other post earlier on this thread.

 

Translation: get yourself a feken KnockLink (or mgt that can log knock signals) and see for yourself, so you don't have to rely on others for 3rd hand stale info. How's that?

Are you sure you are not related to Mycroft? The attitude seems very similar sometimes

[JohnA]

So, are you saying that the definitive evidence is based on your 3rd hand stale information?

It's FIFTH hand, and totally evaporated, beyond stale.

 

Do your own tests mate, trust no-one.

That's what I do, and the results suprise me quite often. There is a lot of claptrap, boo-ha-ha and urban mythology in automotive 'tuning'

 

Now you know.

[JohnA]

Are you sure you are not related to Mycroft?

We may have shared the same girlfriend (or boyfriend, if you really are interested in that sort of relationships)

[CJ]

So, there have been no independant scientific tests to back up your claims that Optimax degrades quicker and to a worse degree than the other SUL's. Well, thats all you had to say when I first asked because, as you rightly point out:

 

"There is a lot of claptrap, boo-ha-ha and urban mythology in automotive 'tuning".

[JohnA]

Do your own tests mate, like I do.

[Ian C]

I'm wondering that myself. I was willing to discuss this even to the point of writing to Shell but being accused, amongst other things, of actually thinking Tesco had set up refineries in the middle east is really starting to set my troll alarm off. I've had enough now, this reminds me of mycroft's first ever post, rattling on about how he knew everything about fuel and no-one else did, and boy did it go downhill from there. And keep your patronising explanations of Boswelox and those "best anti-ageing cream ever (*based on sales)" adverts, I damn well don't fall for anything like that and I consider it insulting that you insinuate I do.

 

As for doing my own tests, how about running my Supra on nothing but Optimax for 4 years with ever bigger power outputs and having no problems with it? How much more long term real world experience do you want? Seems all this suddenly evaporates like 98RON fuel when compared to, hilariously, 3rd hand forum information pushed by someone acting too smug for my liking. Apparently I've been using the wrong fuel all along and I'm soooo stupid for doing it. I'd run it on cat piss if it worked on someone else's car for 4 years straight, I don't care what brand it is. But I won't run it on cat piss based on a Vauxhall fanatics' assurances out of the blue.

 

-Ian

[JohnA]

I'm wondering that myself. I was willing to discuss this even to the point of writing to Shell

I've written to Shell (and BP too) and got results. Put them on my site, too

but being accused, amongst other things, of actually thinking Tesco had set up refineries in the middle east is really starting to set my troll alarm off.

Relax Ian, the tone of a reply can be taken wrongly on the internet

Some of your posts I regard as 'Bible' pages when it comes to the SupraTT, so keep that in mind

I've had enough now, this reminds me of mycroft's first ever post, rattling on about how he knew everything about fuel and no-one else did, and boy did it go downhill from there.

Mycroft is still a mystery to me.

I still can't tell if he indeed was a Prophet or a Bullsheeter

And keep your patronising explanations of Boswelox and those "best anti-ageing cream ever (*based on sales)" adverts, I damn well don't fall for anything like that and I consider it insulting that you insinuate I do.

Ouch, did we hit a nerve there?

It was just an example mate, to show how weasel words are used in marketing texts, just like Shell do.

 

pushed by someone acting too smug for my liking.

If you don't like me that's fine mate, I won't lose any sleep.

[Guest Terry S]

I've written to Shell (and BP too) and got results. Put them on my site, too

 

Relax Ian, the tone of a reply can be taken wrongly on the internet

Some of your posts I regard as 'Bible' pages when it comes to the SupraTT, so keep that in mind

 

Mycroft is still a mystery to me.

I still can't tell if he indeed was a Prophet or a Bullsheeter

 

Ouch, did we hit a nerve there?

It was just an example mate, to show how weasel words are used in marketing texts, just like Shell do.

 

 

If you don't like me that's fine mate, I won't lose any sleep.

 

John I am more than a little perplexed as to why you joined this Forum. I don't think you are Mycroft as I think Dude has met you, but you do seem intent on trying to piss on everyone's parade, or batter them to death with book knowledge. Very much in the Mycroft style. Maybe you should take a slightly more humble approach to this forum, and realise that there are people here who have been pushing these cars for years, and will not appreciate the tone of your replies.

 

Justa heads up.

[JohnA]

You're probably right Terry, the tone comes out weird and strange on the internet.

 

'smug'? I don't think so, that's a first one, not from anyone who knows me, so that came out wrong.

 

On the Shell front, I have a long history pushing this company to come clean, so yes I'm kinda hot on that subject

[Ian C]

Just for everyone's benefit, I did my own research and got this:

 

Dear Mr Chisholm,

 

Thank you for your email which has been passed to me for response.

For your information, the regular Shell unleaded is 95 RON, whereas the Optimax is 98 RON.

 

If you require any more information please do not hesitate to contact me.

Kind Regards

 

Christina

 

 

 

Christina Parry

Customer Relations - Retail

Shell U.K. Oil Products Limited

Rowlandsway House, Rowlandsway, Manchester M22 5SB, United Kingdom

 

Tel: +44 0161 947 5864 Fax: +44 161 499 4903

Email:

Internet: http://www.shell.com/uk

 

So there you go. No caveats, no time limits, no excuses. Straightforward 98RON rating. In official admissable-in-court-evidence email format.

 

Apologies for contributing to this thread again but I thought this would be relevant

 

-Ian

[JohnA]

That's interestingly different from what they replied to me in October 2003 (this reply was very quick too, in my case it was like pulling teeth, they kept sending the standard promotional literature with the fishes)

At the time they said that it is guaranteed for 95RON and 86MON, and that 'typical' values would be 96+ RON and 87MON (but not guaranteed though)

 

They may have changed the formula (minor 'tweaks' happen often behind the scenes anyway) or the Customer Relations lady is not technically correct.

Maybe they want to respond to the Tesco 'threat', I hope it's the former, for the benefit of all of us.

[penguin]

:| you guys have waaaaaaaaay too much time on your hands

[JohnA]

True.

 

But after a few sets of ornamental pistons used as Dali-style-ashtrays, the novelty wears off and avoiding detonation becomes an obsession.

 

I'm sorry that this thread took a nasty turn, but this happens on the internet every now and then. We're all friends and respect each other, that's how I see it, no bad feelings.

 

*A round of beer for the lads*

[SkyJawa]

Well from what I remember of my scooby days, and a shed load of them use a knocklink in high states of tune, and in nearly every case they could run more advance with optimax than SUL. In laymans terms equating to SUL causing more knock than Optimax.

 

Good enough for me, never used anything but since it came out. Thats on Supra's, Scooby's and my current Pug and Skyline. Will try the Tesco though, sounds interesting

[JohnA]

Looking back at older tech threads, I found this one where Shell responded to an enquiry saying that it is 98RON minimum --- same as they did lately with IanC

 

Looks like they changed that tune around 2years ago, then changed yet again lately.

 

Curiouser and curiouser...

[mikeyb10supra]

im not a fuel expert but I would say if tesco claim this to be 99RON why would'nt it be........there reputatation is on the line and as one of the biggest companies around im sure they would'nt falsly advertise....they could be sued for millions