wkdtime Posted February 7, 2005 Share Posted February 7, 2005 A slightly modded supra, be it Jap TT or UK TT, can leave a Porche Carerra, or an F355, it must be the sweetest feeling in the world especially when you see these cars through the rear view mirror! I think if toyota did not have to worry about emission controls and budget restrictions the would have wanted to push more out of the supra! So i guess we can finish where they left off! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiefgroover Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 A slightly modded supra, be it Jap TT or UK TT, can leave a Porche Carerra, or an F355, it must be the sweetest feeling in the world especially when you see these cars through the rear view mirror! Excellent stuff, and thats good enough reason to inspire most people to mod their Supra. Great post WkdTime ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digsy Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 Toyota spent thousands of hours developing a 500+bhp engine then strangled it to keep emissions bureaucrats happy....No offense meant but I don't subscribe to this view at all. First off, you don't design a 500+bhp engine unless you plan to actually make it because the costs of manufacture will be much higher. Maybe they did design a base engine that was good for that level of power, but if they really did decide late in the programme to restrict it to only 350bhp then unless they swapped out a lot of parts then Toyota will have ended up with a severely over-engineered lump. Don't confuse over-engineering with reliability. As mentioned above, high volume OEMs want reliability but they also want it to a price. Over engineering = expensive. Don't forget that the Supra engine in stock form only makes 117bhp per litre which is probably about average for a turbo road car. On the other hand, 500hp from the same base engine would be 167bhp per litre, which is a whole lot and this would have made for a very highly stressed engine indeed. Don't forget that this is a ten year old design, predating the high-revving stuff with VVTLi or VTEC that is relatively rare even today. My guess is that if they had really wanted to make a 500bhp engine for road use they would have built a >4 litre V8. The knock on effect of this is that it probably would have pitched the Supra at a different market. Secondly, emissions regulations are defined well before they come into effect. Toyota would have known well in advance what the emissions regs were going to be when the car hit the streets. For an OEM to get "caught out" by emissions regs to the tune of having to sacrifice 200bhp is simply unthinkable. Thirdly, it is perfeclty possible to make an emissions compliant 500bhp engine if you really want to. Maybe not a 3.0 litre one for which is good for road use, and probably not to within the budget requirements for the Supra, but as I mentioned above if Toyota were serious about this headline power figure I think they would have gone for a different engine design. I read on this forum that Toyota wanted to take the engine racing, in which case the base engine dimensions being good for a significantly higher output would make sense, but I would expect the racing version, if it were ever made, to have loads of uprated internal bits: rods, crank, lube system, bearing shells, pistons, etc. The racing version of the Lotus V8 [/]did [/i] make 500 bhp on the dyno using mainly stock internals, but it only did it once or twice and would never have been seriously taken racing like that and expected to hold together. Also, if it was only a racing lump then the way the engine would be used would be very different, which brings us straight back to the bhp versus durability over time issue. Nope, not convinced Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiefgroover Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 I wonder what the members @ http://www.t04r.com would make of this post? "which brings us straight back to the bhp versus durability over time issue.", Digsy I agree with this, but am one of the many willing to make the durability sacrafice in order to run more power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
attilauk Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 A slightly modded supra, be it Jap TT or UK TT, can leave a Porche Carerra, or an F355, it must be the sweetest feeling in the world especially when you see these cars through the rear view mirror! im sorry but the only way a slightly modified supra can leave a F355 behind is if the rari was parked! a BPU+ supra (more than slightly modified in my view) probably produces about 400bhp which gives it a power to weight ratio of 250 bhp / tonne. a stock F355 produces 375bhp but only weighs a smidge over 1300kgs giving it a power to weight ratio of 286 bhp / tonne, quite a significant advantage really! as to whether we should modify our cars, personally i dont think i could own a car without personalising it somehow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 im sorry but the only way a slightly modified supra can leave a F355 behind is if the rari was parked! Tell that to the 355 driver I raced on the M621 when my car was 100% standard - he wasn't best pleased Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
attilauk Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 lol i wondered how long it would be before someone posted something along those lines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digsy Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 I wonder what the members @ www.t04r.com would make of this post? "which brings us straight back to the bhp versus durability over time issue.", Digsy I agree with this, but am one of the many willing to make the durability sacrafice in order to run more power.As impressive as the mods are, I suspect the guys on that website are never called upon to definitively prove how long their engines will actually last. Morevover they probably look upon the occaisonal blow up and rebuild as a run of the mill annoyance. If I was a tuner taking a stock 350bhp lump and increasing the power output by 100% I'd certainly be expecting a blow up. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but eventually. As much as it may sound like it I'm not knocking tuning, but my perspective on it is slightly skewed. I look at it a bit like this: I suspect that a reasonably fit and healthy person would be able to take a punch or two in the chops from a professional heavyweight boxer. With a bit of fancy footwork he may even be able to last a whole round. However, at the end of that round he would be in considerably less good shape and might well feel like throwing in the towel to save himself for another day. Even if he boxed one round like that per week I dont think that this guy could reasonably claim to his mates up the pub that he boxed at heavyweight level. Likewise, to me, running 700 bhp down the dragstrip at weekends does not conclusively prove that the Supra engine is "good for" that kind of power in stock form. But like I keep saying, its horses for courses and if you are happy to sacrifice durability for more power, or if the occaisonal drag race is all you want to do with the car then all well and good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 Yay We have lucked out with the 2JZ as it seems to hold together for quite a while at daft power levels on stock internals. You look at the amount of work that goes into a Scoob or a Cossie to hold the engines together for a brief period under increased power levels. You don't get something for nothing, it's gonna wear out faster, but turbocharging increases stress at midstroke points on the power cycle of the engine. The main stress points are the top and bottom directional changes of the stroke, and these stresses are higher stock than the midpoints are under high boost power. This is why high revs cause durability issues, as the stress factor at the direction changes skyrockets as rpms go up. So as long as your fuelling, cooling, and ignition are all OK for the power output, and the engine is robust in the first place, it's gonna last A While. If you don't want to modify, don't do it. I like the technical challenge -Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian R Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 I think "modding" (god I hate that word to max power) the car is a reason that so many people have kept there Supes for so long many people at the point of "enhancing" (I like that one) there car would probably be looking at trading in if it where anything else. I think a Supra's are like a pack of pringles though once you start you cant stop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supragal Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 mmmm pringles. Are they the black pepper ones? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tDR Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 Should we just leave our Supra's standard? NO!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul mac Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 I think "modding" (god I hate that word to max power) the car is a reason that so many people have kept there Supes for so long many people at the point of "enhancing" (I like that one) there car would probably be looking at trading in if it where anything else. I think a Supra's are like a pack of pringles though once you start you cant stop i think your spot on there Ian i've owned mine 3 and a half years (which is by far the longest i've ever owned a car) and am still not bored, previous cars were 200sx's (s13 & 14) which are quite "moddable" and i left them stock, (i'me now in the middle of a single turbo conversion)i think for me being into the jap muscle car era the supe was something to aspire to and now i've got one i honestly would not swap it for a skyline, ZX, RX, GTO, with regard to modding the engine my mate has a 300 zx and although the V6 is compact just look how easy it is to mod the straight 6 2JZ in comparison, the 300zx has 2 of everything, blow offs, intercoolers, engine out to remove turbos etc, i think this is one of the reasons the supe is so moddable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbeh Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 a BPU+ supra (more than slightly modified in my view) probably produces about 400bhp which gives it a power to weight ratio of 250 bhp / tonne. a stock F355 produces 375bhp but only weighs a smidge over 1300kgs giving it a power to weight ratio of 286 bhp / tonne, quite a significant advantage really! The weight issue only really applies to low speed accelleration and cornering. So its pretty meaningless on the M1 at 70+ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nik Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 My favourite (cosmetic) supra mods are Colour Coding De-Manking the headlamps (I suppose thats more of a standard thing?) Changing the repeaters/front 'cators to white? The supra is such a pretty car and I have alot of respect for it, why majorly change what is fundamentally a perfect car? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitelightning Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 Heretics ! Mod or be damned !!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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