BPU or Hybrid.

[Homer]

I agree with you Ash on all but one point (will come to that last )

 

Unless you're in a position like Tdr where pretty much every prerequisite mod is already installed, the single route is magnitudes more expensive than the hybrid route.

 

Assuming you're starting from a stock manual car, a basic T67dbb turbo setup will cost £8500 at a minimum.

 

From the same car the Hybrid route will cost £3400 assuming you go for Envy hybrids, £800 fitting cost, piggyback and remap and the mandatory BPU bits. This of course assumed you have a top notch IC, otherwise budget that too.

 

In all the hybrid route is half the cost, but the gains are very minimal over BPU at this basic level. In terms of gain per £ the single route is vastly more cost effective.

 

The only time I can see the hybrid route as being viable is when the stock turbo's are blown and need replacing, as an upgrade route for a working engine it's simply not cost effective.

 

I have a break down of all the costs in an Excel file if anyone wants it…

 

 

Now, onto the comparison bit Ash I've driven many stock TT, even more BPU, a few singles and a few (well setup) hybrid cars. The hybrids were certainly more lively at the top end, but not dramatically so. The singles are completely different, they are much easier to drive due to the smoother torque curve and the only time the power is really 'missing' is in 1st and 2nd sub 3k rpm. I'm sure you've been in Jakes car by now and have plenty of info from him too

[Suprash]

I agree with you Ash on all but one point (will come to that last )

 

Unless you're in a position like Tdr where pretty much every prerequisite mod is already installed, the single route is magnitudes more expensive than the hybrid route.

 

Assuming you're starting from a stock manual car, a basic T67dbb turbo setup will cost £8500 at a minimum.

 

From the same car the Hybrid route will cost £3400 assuming you go for Envy hybrids, £800 fitting cost, piggyback and remap and the mandatory BPU bits. This of course assumed you have a top notch IC, otherwise budget that too.

 

In all the hybrid route is half the cost, but the gains are very minimal over BPU at this basic level. In terms of gain per £ the single route is vastly more cost effective.

 

The only time I can see the hybrid route as being viable is when the stock turbo's are blown and need replacing, as an upgrade route for a working engine it's simply not cost effective.

 

I have a break down of all the costs in an Excel file if anyone wants it…

 

 

Now, onto the comparison bit Ash I've driven many stock TT, even more BPU, a few singles and a few (well setup) hybrid cars. The hybrids were certainly more lively at the top end, but not dramatically so. The singles are completely different, they are much easier to drive due to the smoother torque curve and the only time the power is really 'missing' is in 1st and 2nd sub 3k rpm. I'm sure you've been in Jakes car by now and have plenty of info from him too

 

Only been in his car once, and he was fighting for traction all over the place

 

But my biggest argument here is still reliability, and I still think hybrids keeping the stock sequential setup will cause you less problems Vs cheap after market parts for singles, and thats the only reason why I havent gone the single route, I just cant be arsed with the off road time/niggling problems, even Gaz6002 has had his fair share of problems, so far reliability, keep it as close to stock as possible, Mr T done a good job.....

[mikeyb10supra]

Unless you're in a position like Tdr where pretty much every prerequisite mod is already installed, the single route is magnitudes more expensive than the hybrid route.

 

Assuming you're starting from a stock manual car, a basic T67dbb turbo setup will cost £8500 at a minimum.

 

 

This is exactly the point ive been trying to make, and I issume this figure is your quote for the setup with no corners cut.....and I bet there is more your planning on doing to get the car running even better aren't you

 

> actually ive just thought, you sold didnt you

 

 

 

The only time I can see the hybrid route as being viable is when the stock turbo's are blown and need replacing, as an upgrade route for a working engine it's simply not cost effective.

 

Or if sensible people who know a thing or too cant afford to do the install properly and only a half cocked effort, then I would say dont and stick with hybrids too, I still remain firm on my views that a well sorted single will cost overall in excess of 10k in the long run

 

 

Now, onto the comparison bit Ash I've driven many stock TT, even more BPU, a few singles and a few (well setup) hybrid cars. The hybrids were certainly more lively at the top end, but not dramatically so. The singles are completely different, they are much easier to drive due to the smoother torque curve and the only time the power is really 'missing' is in 1st and 2nd sub 3k rpm. I'm sure you've been in Jakes car by now and have plenty of info from him too

 

im kind of with ash on this one, I have seen vids of BPU cars against a whole host of single cars from different speeds and there is minimal distance a single car can pull on a BPU car from say 30 upwards. From speeds above 70 there will probably only be one winner everytime, but then my view is why not have a car thats quick upto the speed limits seeing as anything over 100 in todays age your asking for trouble

 

 

And Im still of the opinion that Hybrids are more streetable then a small single, I would miss low down pickup, and I know you guys will say but a small single can be fully spooled by the time your no.2 comes along, maybe so, but they are two totally different setups and there for you get a different feel back from each setup.....

 

The lowdown pick up is certainly something I would miss too, I must admit though singles when in gear and at higher revs are awesome

 

Personally Shameless, I still think you would benifit from Hybrids if 450 is all you want........its close to stock, more streetable, and one thing I have found out from modifying over the years, is if you want less problems, keep everything as stock as possible, as the more you change/replace things the more open you are to new problems, and especially if your car is a every day driver like mine.......

 

This is what I thought as well when reading hence the controversial posts hehe

[Nic]

And Im still of the opinion that Hybrids are more streetable then a small single, I would miss low down pickup

 

I disagree with what you say here, with the right choice of turbo and setup, you can have similar (around 200rpm later) low down pick up to a stock J-spec, plus a huge amount more power, delivered much more smoothly, right to the rev limit.

 

I can only compare my setup with a stock J-spec, as I've not driven a car with hybrid turbos on, but they must spool slightly slower than the stock J-spec turbos, so I'd guess that there's not a lot in it between the two in terms of initial pick up.

 

I know which setup I think is more streetable

[Wez]

There is a dyno plot floating about somewhere that shows a BPU supra, my single and Terrys single.

 

I think Homer produced it.

[Nic]

There is a dyno plot floating about somewhere that shows a BPU supra, my single and Terrys single.

 

I think Homer produced it.

 

This is an overlay that Homer did of his BPU Supra vs Terry's GT35R. I'm also using the GT35R although I think Terry's AR was slightly smaller than mine (AR .82).

 

It illustrates well how with the right choice of turbo, a single turbo Supra is no less responsive than a BPU TT Supra.

 

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/darryl.lloyd2/Supra/T61%20vs%20BPU.jpg

[Wez]

Thats it Nic

 

There is also another one which shows boost, I think mine is on that one

[mr keef]

That turbo looks like it would be a dream to drive:)

[Nic]

That turbo looks like it would be a dream to drive:)

 

Certainly is

 

As you can see form the graph, the power is very linear in comparison to the sequential set up and it just doesn't stop pulling hard until the rev limit.

 

In the first 3 gears you really need to feed the power in smoothly as it will spin the wheels up very easily, once you adapt your driving style to suit though, it is devastatingly quick on the street. The RLTC helps a lot to get the power down if you do want to go mad and just boot it..