One for the Suspension Guru's!

Hey peeps,

Have a few questions in regards to suspension and set up...

I am currently running some Tein Suspension (But not 100% which, the labels are badly worn, makes it hard to see) and i am ideally interested in track days...

Now, to me the car feels set up way too hard all round but i don't know the first thing about proper set up.

Done some track time and lots of 360's [sHOCK][/sHOCK] Although it's fun, not the fastest way forward. Traction out of corners is nearly none existing.

Is there anybody on here who offers a set up service for mainly track and some road use? Is there a happy-ish medium? I am based in East Sussex but don't mind travelling a bit.

How much does it cost?

Also, are the Tein's any good for track use or should i be looking at some new suspension? Considering these are probably quite old.... Hmmm....

It really depends on your budget, you can spend circa 3-4k on suspension like nitrons etc or a budget setup like I`m using is kyb agx dampers with hks lowering springs which works really nice on the road(also comfortable) and also pretty good on track.

Also the bilstein setup chris Wilson offers are rated highly and again not too expensive.

Either way I`d ditch the teins unless they are top of their range jobbies.

Edit, also a decent fast road geo setup will help massively with handling.

Chris Wilson will spec you a set of Bilsteins with custom vales and spring rates (if necessary) for the driving you do. For the budget (I'd guess £1300-£2k) you will not find a higher quality setup.

I'm running Toyota OEm Bilsteins (not to be confused with Chris's superior German Bilsteins) with Eibach springs. They work well on the road, and performed admirably on the Nurburgring recently. But they wouldn't be suitable for a heavily track biased car.

Send Chris a pm- he'll respond as quick as anything...

Send Chris a pm- he'll respond as offensively as possible...

Fixed that for ya

It really depends on your budget, you can spend circa 3-4k on suspension like nitrons etc or a budget setup like I`m using is kyb agx dampers with hks lowering springs which works really nice on the road(also comfortable) and also pretty good on track.

Also the bilstein setup chris Wilson offers are rated highly and again not too expensive.

Either way I`d ditch the teins unless they are top of their range jobbies.

 

Edit, also a decent fast road geo setup will help massively with handling.

Cheers bro, judging by your Vids, that set up does indeed work well, Will look into that... Do you use the standard diff?

Chris Wilson will spec you a set of Bilsteins with custom vales and spring rates (if necessary) for the driving you do. For the budget (I'd guess £1300-£2k) you will not find a higher quality setup.

 

I'm running Toyota OEm Bilsteins (not to be confused with Chris's superior German Bilsteins) with Eibach springs. They work well on the road, and performed admirably on the Nurburgring recently. But they wouldn't be suitable for a heavily track biased car.

I guess budget is the key. But then if it works, it's gotta be worth it! Might have a chat with Mr Wilson, he seems to know his sh... stuff!!

Cheers bro, judging by your Vids, that set up does indeed work well, Will look into that... Do you use the standard diff?

No standard diff, I`m running a tomie (like trd) and uprated anti roll bars(whiteline) good but not essential.

No standard diff, I`m running a tomie (like trd) and uprated anti roll bars(whiteline) good but not essential.

Was looking at those Tomie Diffs... So no massive difference? You seem to get amazing traction out of bends!

The Teins are internally very basic, and poor quality, in my opinion, and they usually come with spring rates that are far too high. Secondly, please post a decent side view of your car, many people lower the MKIV far too much and for various reasons this will kill handling. I can spec and supply suspension to cover track and fast road usage, even drag usage. I do not have any interest in getting involved with drifting though.

A decent LSD is a very good buy. Currently the OS Giken is the off the shelf dif of choice, they are superbly made and technically advanced.

The Teins are internally very basic, and poor quality, in my opinion, and they usually come with spring rates that are far too high. Secondly, please post a decent side view of your car, many people lower the MKIV far too much and for various reasons this will kill handling. I can spec and supply suspension to cover track and fast road usage, even drag usage. I do not have any interest in getting involved with drifting though.

Thanks Chris, looks like I might need to chat with you in regards to set up and possibly new suspension!

I have attached a side on shot, think it's too low?

Many thanks

 

A decent LSD is a very good buy. Currently the OS Giken is the off the shelf dif of choice, they are superbly made and technically advanced.

Maybe for the future, as these aren't cheap!

If it were mine I would run it a bit higher, with more rake (higher at the back than the front), as my pleasure in driving cars that work well *FAR FAR* exceeds driving cars that follow the current visual trends. But I can tell you for nothing, the springs that the Teins will have come with will be too stiff for good rear traction, and the dampers won't have enough droop. Changing the springs and dampers will make a *BIG* difference.

If it were mine I would run it a bit higher, with more rake (higher at the back than the front), as my pleasure in driving cars that work well *FAR FAR* exceeds driving cars that follow the current visual trends. But I can tell you for nothing, the springs that the Teins will have come with will be too stiff for good rear traction, and the dampers won't have enough droop. Changing the springs and dampers will make a *BIG* difference.

I am all up for handling over looks!

So... Which set up do you recommend? People are rating your bilsteins quite highly...

Budget is of course important, but I do want something decent.

If it were mine I would run it a bit higher, with more rake (higher at the back than the front), as my pleasure in driving cars that work well *FAR FAR* exceeds driving cars that follow the current visual trends. But I can tell you for nothing, the springs that the Teins will have come with will be too stiff for good rear traction, and the dampers won't have enough droop. Changing the springs and dampers will make a *BIG* difference.

I am all up for handling over looks!

So... Which set up do you recommend? People are rating your bilsteins quite highly...

Budget is of course important, but I do want something decent.

I would go for my custom valved Bilstein Sports with some of my custom, variable rate progressive springs. I can supply only for £950 plus VAT, or supply and fit, doing the geo, assuming no adjusters are seized, for £1380 plus VAT.

*HOWEVER* the Teins probably use none stock top mounts, top spring isolation rubbers/ bellows, and bump rubbers. these would need sourcing, new or used, to go with the Bilsteins. I may have some top mounts, I won't have the bump stops or spring isolation rubbers / bellows though. You can sometimes buy a full set of stock suspension on here and just re-cycle the mounts and bump stops.

In other words my kits use stock Toyota top mounts, spring isolation top rubbers / bellows, and stock bump stops.

I run Chris' fast road set-up in my track car. I will probably have him re-spring the dampeners for me eventually to take them a step closer to a full-on racing configuration.

But for now they do the job admirably and several people have commented from the passenger seat that the car changes direction like a go-kart. I've let a seasoned, competitive driver behind the wheel and he couldn't fault the car in terms of suspension or handling. Wet or dry the car is planted, traction is there if I want it and would be better if I didn't run budget semi-slicks, but I do like a smidge of opposite lock coming out of a corner, makes for better telly.

I firmly believe the next level in progression after Chris' bespoke Bilsteins would be an expensive one.

I've also recently fitted a proper plate type LSD from Cusco, I'm still in the "getting to know you" stage with it, but the difference in the change in car attitude brought about by driver input is vast. Can't say I'm any quicker yet as I've only done about an hour behind the wheel since fitting.

Thanks for the kind words Damien. I can do exotic too, if people want exotic

The nicest springs I ever did see were a set Porsche did for the factory Le Mans 962 car. they were titanium, and the wire was tapered in section, to give a progressive rate. They were jewel like, weighed half of not a lot, and must have cost a fortune, both to make the tapered Ti wire, and wind them.

Thanks for the kind words Damien. I can do exotic too, if people want exotic

I was actually aware of that Chris, didn't mean to imply you had your limits.

Exotic suspension, the only thing with a foreign connotation that still gets the nod of approval from Mr Wilson.

Getting soft Chris?

Good God, no. I believe the springs were made in the UK....

EDIT:

Ooops, no they weren't they were made in the US by Pratt and Miller

http://www.titanium.org/resource/resmgr/2005_2009.../LathamGary_2008.pdf

God knows what they cost to make, some used 935 *NONE* taper wound wound Ti springs are on sale here:

http://retro-sport.com/products/race-cars/934-935/front-axle-a-steering/race-cars/934935/101-all-parts/900-027-016-01/P225-935-titanium-progressive-front-springs.html

Wow 3000 dollars for a PAIR of springs, that's awesome:cool:

I run Chris' fast road set-up in my track car. I will probably have him re-spring the dampeners for me eventually to take them a step closer to a full-on racing configuration.

 

But for now they do the job admirably and several people have commented from the passenger seat that the car changes direction like a go-kart. I've let a seasoned, competitive driver behind the wheel and he couldn't fault the car in terms of suspension or handling. Wet or dry the car is planted, traction is there if I want it and would be better if I didn't run budget semi-slicks, but I do like a smidge of opposite lock coming out of a corner, makes for better telly.

 

 

I firmly believe the next level in progression after Chris' bespoke Bilsteins would be an expensive one.

 

I've also recently fitted a proper plate type LSD from Cusco, I'm still in the "getting to know you" stage with it, but the difference in the change in car attitude brought about by driver input is vast. Can't say I'm any quicker yet as I've only done about an hour behind the wheel since fitting.

Great vid! Be interesting to see how you get on with that diff!!!

I would go for my custom valved Bilstein Sports with some of my custom, variable rate progressive springs. I can supply only for £950 plus VAT, or supply and fit, doing the geo, assuming no adjusters are seized, for £1380 plus VAT.

 

*HOWEVER* the Teins probably use none stock top mounts, top spring isolation rubbers/ bellows, and bump rubbers. these would need sourcing, new or used, to go with the Bilsteins. I may have some top mounts, I won't have the bump stops or spring isolation rubbers / bellows though. You can sometimes buy a full set of stock suspension on here and just re-cycle the mounts and bump stops.

 

In other words my kits use stock Toyota top mounts, spring isolation top rubbers / bellows, and stock bump stops.

Sounds interesting! And by what people have said, sounds a fair price... Just so i get all my options in place, are there any other maybe slightly cheaper shocks you would recommend or supply? ( I appreciate the fact that i would be compromising) Would love to get my car set up with you as you seem to be the man for this! Am just budgeting for a few other things which need doing too... Or i'll just have to save up a bit!

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Wow 3000 dollars for a PAIR of springs, that's awesome:cool:

But would they make Bignum faster???

I have a nice Kaaz LSD (similar to Bignum's Toemi) for sale to help with your traction out of corners if your interested

Slightly sidenote, but those stock supra bilsteins are re-buildable. Serviced bilsteins+C.W springs could be a great suspension for reasonable budget?

Great vid! Be interesting to see how you get on with that diff!!!

Cheers mate, next Monday is round two of the Irish Time Attack series, we'll see if I'm still holding third place in Pro Tuesday morning!