Chris and Alana Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 Hi guys, I fancy upgrading my brakes soon and have a couple questions and could do with some opinions please. I currently have a full J-spec setup that seem to be working fine. I dont do any track day's just the occasional spirited driving moment. Anyway I'm not sure whether to do the following with my J-spec's:- DOT 5.1 fluid Fast Road Pads (endless possibly) (Front and Rear) 3G Drilled and Grooved Disks (front and Rear) Goodridge Braided Lines Approx £500 Or buy a new set of UK callipers (Front and Rear) and do a similar thing but the price would be more around the £1200 mark. I know the UK setup would be the best option but would I really need it. What are peoples experiences with upgraded J-spec brakes? Do you find they do the business? Also if I bought a set of braided lines would they fit the j-spec calipers and the uk calipers or are they specific? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_blackman Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 This is my next upgrade too, I had quotes of Gaz for uprated jspec 3g disk and endless pads, braided hoses and high heat fluid.... i'm not sure its worth spending a huge amount for normal driving personally I'm going to the ring next year with a few mates so I thought the above would be good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kieren1234 Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 I guess it boils down to what you need really. Is it going to be worth the 1200 if its a pointless upgrade. I would say do the first setup and spent the extra £700 on servicing it or mods etc..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon F Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 Full set of UK's - no question. I did it to mine and they totally transform the car. It always amazes me that people are willing to spend £000's on power 'upgrades' and pay no attention to the brakes. My opinion only, having done it myself - others may disagree. Maybe your best option is to try a car with UK's on and make your decision then. Goodridge hoses are the same for both UK and Jap calipers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 Full set of UK's - no question. I did it to mine and they totally transform the car. It always amazes me that people are willing to spend £000's on power 'upgrades' and pay no attention to the brakes. My opinion only, having done it myself - others may disagree. Maybe your best option is to try a car with UK's on and make your decision then. Goodridge hoses are the same for both UK and Jap calipers. I didnt do any mods that increase power until i had UK brakes. Saftey comes first in my eyes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamc Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 What about a 2nd hand set of UKs with a refurb kit (Nic) plus braided lines, discs, pads and fluid? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 What about a 2nd hand set of UKs with a refurb kit (Nic) plus braided lines, discs, pads and fluid? Mine were second hand from Alex i think. I did a refurb on them and have not had a problem with them since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supRo Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 If you can't afford UK brakes then J spec with stock discs, harder pads, braided lines and good fluid will be an improvement then stock j spec brakes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris and Alana Posted August 18, 2007 Author Share Posted August 18, 2007 thanks for the input guy's Second hand UK callipers may be an option if I can get them. Does anyone know how much a refurb kit cost for a full UK setup (all four callipers)? If I was into lots of track action I would definitely get the larger brakes but I'm not. I do think safety is important and brakes, suspension, tyres etc shouldn’t really be skimped on but would the larger brakes be overkill for road driving and therefore an unnecessary expense. . . . Toyota seemed to know what they were doing when they made the supra and they must of thought the j-spec brakes were good enough, surely, so upgraded j-specs should be more than adequate for road use, or am I barking up the wrong tree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamc Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 Around £20 - £25 for the front and the same for the rear is what I was told, might be wrong on this though. There was an interesting braking horse power chart and the UK spec calipers, mintex discs and pads were quite highly rated! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieP Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 I use the 8 pot D2 setup, anyone thats been in my car will tell you how well it stops, full kit is about 1k from ebay i think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 In the short term braided hoses, decent fluid flush and good pads (Try CW?) will help a lot. Hoses are obviously reusable and part worn pads seem to fetch good money too, so giving you time to save up in the meanwhile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Walker Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 Around £20 - £25 for the front and the same for the rear is what I was told, might be wrong on this though. Per caliper yep. If your not doing any mad driving, stick with the J-spec's with the upgraded parts Chris, it will make the stock setup significantly better. Gaz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamc Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 I use the 8 pot D2 setup, anyone thats been in my car will tell you how well it stops, full kit is about 1k from ebay i think. Yeah, but thats for the front brakes only... what about the rear? Per caliper yep. If your not doing any mad driving, stick with the J-spec's with the upgraded parts Chris, it will make the stock setup significantly better. Gaz. I stand slightly correct Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 if your disks are not worn out forget uprated ones. IMO its the pads and braided lines that will give you the better bite/pedal feel and resistance to fade on repeated braking. All things (pads disks etc) being equal obviously uk's are better, however £400 worth or brake pads on their own with no other mods will transform the bite and the performance of the brakes over sustained/prolonged use. The j-specs are far more prone to have sliders seize with age and when this happens their performance does suffer. At this point (hopefully combined with disk and/or pad wear) i would seriously consider the move to UK brakes. Also another factor can be the possiblility of being faced with the need to buy a new set of wheels if you go for UK's. What i'm saying is you can track or use a supra hard with Jap spec brakes and i would still maintain that stock UK's with stock pads are not as effective as J spec brakes with say (as I can talk from direct experience with this specific pad) CW race pads. So if it was me i'd have a good look at the Jap calipers as they will almost certainly be the originals to see if the rubbers on the sliders and pistons are in good condition. If so i'd get some very good pads, research is required here, I'd say CW's RACE ones are very good performance wise but i would hesitate if you are precious about your wheels as they are dusty. Hawk, Porterfield and Endless are others that spring to mind. If the calipers look tired then i'd look into uk's, but just get plain stock disks and spend the money on the pads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieP Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 Yeah, but thats for the front brakes only... what about the rear? Im still on J-spec rears and mine stops perfectly so never bovered upgrading them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suprafan72 Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 I use a 6 pot set up at the front and a 4 pot alcon at the back.. Now that does stop..... But it all depends on your budget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 ..... But it all depends on your budget. and your tyres............ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris and Alana Posted August 18, 2007 Author Share Posted August 18, 2007 Thanks guys, alot to think about there, I'll have to get out and have a look at the condition of the callipers first and decide from there then. I've seen the D2 kit on ebay and it looks pritty nice Jamie, does having 1pot's on the rear not affect the overall braking at all? Is it ok to have such small brakes on the rear and such large brakes on the front? If so then this also might be an option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris and Alana Posted August 18, 2007 Author Share Posted August 18, 2007 Also without trying to sound like an idiot here . . . . Is it possible to put the front 2pots on the rear? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamc Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 Im still on J-spec rears and mine stops perfectly so never bovered upgrading them. I thought you had UK rears, oh well... I use a 6 pot set up at the front and a 4 pot alcon at the back.. Now that does stop..... But it all depends on your budget. And how much power you got Also without trying to sound like an idiot here . . . . Is it possible to put the front 2pots on the rear? What about UK fronts on the rear? Would that work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 Fitting the larger spec brakes, decent set of pads and a quality set of tyres would be the first upgrades I do on any Supra, before any 'performance' upgrades. If you buy the front and rear brakes together, I can supply for less than £1200, details here: http://mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?t=98436 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 Plenty of people run uk's up front and jap rears, and it seems the abs system in the supra copes ok......... FYI though i have copied and paste'd the following info from Chris Wilson Time to repost my little brake article "wot i wrote" Brake upgrades can set out to try to achieve several objectives. The commonest are to increase resistance to fade and or increase braking effort for a given pedal effort. IE, the pads are pushed against the discs harder for a given pedal effort than before the upgrade, or the brakes will stop the car from 100 MPH, hard, for more times before fade sets in, than previously. The feel from the pedal, that almost intangible quality, can also be addressed and sometimes improved upon by brake size, or pad material changes, or brake flexi hose upgrades to something less squashy than rubber. It's easy to get carried away by the thought of brake upgrades. The limitation in most cars as to how short a distance they can stop in is tyre friction. Leaving aside pedal feedback, and fade, it is almost certain that a Supra on stock Jap spec brakes will stop in just as short a distance as one with an AP six pot kit on it, a Brembo kit, Pauls KAD kit, or whatever. It may not feel to the driver that it does, but usually such is the case if you just nail the pedal as hard as you can. The fancy kits may *FEEL* to stop the car faster, due to less pedal effort, and a better bite, but in reality, if you hit the pedal as hard as you can with stock Jap spec brakes, UK spec brakes, AP kit, KAD, whatever, the car will stop in the same distance. Repeat this test 10 times and stock Jap brakes may be on fire and long since faded, or the fluid boiled, UK ones may be very hot and bothered, but the upgraded ones will probably still be working within pad, disc and brake fluid temp limits. Add in the intangible "feel" factor, and a desire to brake as hard as possible, using as little skill as possible, but WITHOUT relying on the ABS to take over, and for sure a well set up brake upgrade may well allow more finesse. Herein though lies the rub. Upgrade only the fronts and the brake balance of the stock car may well be compromised. Let's take stock brakes. You press smoothly on the brake pedal with (say) 50 pounds force. The car stops fine. 70 pounds, the fronts are just beginning to lock (car makers ALWAYS aim for the fronts to lock first, as rear wheel lock makes the car very unstable and liable to swap ends). The rears are doing as much work as the brake engineers deemed safe to prevent premature rear lock up. The ABS cuts in, and maximum retardation has been reached. Now, take a car with big front discs and calipers. Only 40 pounds pressure now gives a smooth, lock free and powerful retardation. 50 pounds and the new, more powerful, (for the same pedal pressure), fronts are locking. The ABS cuts in. BUT, and this is the crux, those original rear calipers and discs are still well below the caliper pressure where they are able to achieve maximum retardation without fear of the rears locking. In other words the FRONT brakes are doing TOO MUCH work, albeit without breaking into a sweat, and the rears are, to exaggerate a bit, just along for the ride. The BEST scenario is to upgrade front AND rear brakes, carefully ensuring the original balance of effort at any given brake pedal pressure remains as designed, but that the more efficient front AND rear brakes stay cooler for more hard stops, and that old intangible "feel" from the brake pedal is improved, at lower rates of driver effort on the pedal. The latter may or may not be good or desirable, and can be engineered out by changing BOTH front and rear caliper piston sizes, or pad areas. In a race car the balance would be adjustable via 2 brake master cylinders, with a driver selectable change in mechanical leverage effort between front and rear brake circuits, one cylinder operating the front brake calipers, the other the rear. This can also be achieved on road cars, but to do so is usually complex and expensive, especially if ABS and brake circuit failure safeguards are to be maintained. It is far easier to calculate the caliper and disc sizes, along with pad area and compound to achieve this, as near as available off the shelf equipment will allow. Caveat. I said before makers engineer more effort on the front brakes to encourage straight line stopping if the tyres are locked up . They err on the excessive side, as, in the wet, the rear tyres can take a lot more braking effort than in the dry, due to less weight transfer onto the front tyres, as they will lock before as much weight is transferred when the grip of the road surface is reduced. So adding yet more front brake effort worsens this existing imbalance, especially in the wet. If it were not for the ABS the front wheels would be locking up very early. On the Supra a relatively sophisticated ABS allows some effort to be taken off JUST the fronts, and an artificial and very inefficient balance is returned. On cars with lesser (1 or 2 channel) ABS, or no ABS at all, a brake upgrade on just one end of the car can be lethal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris and Alana Posted August 18, 2007 Author Share Posted August 18, 2007 Thanks Scooter, interesting read. I suppose keeping the rear j-spec's the way they are for the moment and putting new uk's on the front would be an option. Better than what Iv got now, the ABS system should be able to cope fine and keep the balance right and then when I have more spare cash I can upgrade the rears later if need be. What about disk's. . . I've read that standard disk's are best but alot of people use drilled and groved disk's, whats the difference in performance? Is one better than the other or is it a looks thing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 What about disk's. . . I've read that standard disk's are best but alot of people use drilled and groved disk's, whats the difference in performance? Is one better than the other or is it a looks thing? i've never had anything but standard disks on any of my supras. If you like they are not the weak link in the system, and money spent on pads will give you far more improvements in feel and fade. Basically if you jumped from one car with stock pads to one with race pads i believe nearly all drivers would notice the difference........whereas if you went from one car with stock pads and stock disks to one with stock pads but uprated disks i'd expect hardly anyone to notice the difference. There improvement over stock is questionable and at best very minor IMO....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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