what do i need for 450 bhp

358rwhp here recorded at SRR (who are recongised as not overstating their figures), though mine is a 6spd. With say 10% transmission loss thats about 400bhp at the flyhweel. With bigger cams I would think that could reach 420.

I wonder what BHP that 10.6 sec car in the US is running with only stock US/UK twins and a 75 shot of NOS.

I wonder what BHP that 10.6 sec car in the US is running with only stock US/UK twins and a 75 shot of NOS.

Do we know the WEIGHT of that car?

And do we know what they really mean by '75' shot of NOS?

In my experience the real bhp gains from such a shot can vary from 30bhp to 150bhp. It all depends on the final AFRs, charge temps etc.

If it runs pig-rich and intercooling is not a problem, then you see less than the nominal 'bhp' figure

If it runs lean-ish and intercooling was a problem then you see more.

If the wastegate is pushed wide open from all these gases and boost also goes through the roof, then the '75' shot gives you a lot more. You get the picture.

Good points. I dont have any details about the weight tbh. I'll see if I can find some info.

They usually say terminals are a good indicator of the power of the car... 127mph.. so what power do you think is producing those speeds. I know that a 650bhp Enzo puts in terminals of 133mph.

The Gradient on the drag strip would be interesting aswell I think Bobbeh.

PS. I'm pretty sure you dont need cams to see 320 atw in an auto

No you dont need cams to get that in an auto, i got 320 rwhp at SRR (same as Homer) at just under 1 bar of boost. This was just full decat, hks super dragger, restrictor ring, colder plugs, apexi induction kit (i'm sure that doesnt help, but its also not causing any problems)

Charlie the tester did say it made very good power considering the boost level, but this was down to it running perfect AFR's

Now i just need a BC to up it to 1.2

The Gradient on the drag strip would be interesting aswell I think Bobbeh.

Oh p-lease..

a couple of max power stickers in right places too

I think to get a real 450 rwhp you need to be running a very well set up t61, with cams at least, an thats gonna cost alot more than £1500 quid. A well set up bpu soop will still beat most other things on the road though. Spend your £1500 wisely mate, an you wont be disapointed.

a couple of max power stickers in right places too

couple of pints wouldn't hurt, either...

I think to get a real 450 rwhp you need to be running a very well set up t61, with cams at least, an thats gonna cost alot more than £1500 quid. A well set up bpu soop will still beat most other things on the road though. Spend your £1500 wisely mate, an you wont be disapointed.

I am looking at the T61 Single with all supporting mods... What is the drivetrain % loss for a manual?

At about 10 - 15%, I believe you to be spot on with needing a T61 at least to hit those sort of figures at the wheels!

And the build is going to cost in the region of £10K+.

You need to think about fueling, ic, additional cooling, ecu, all other supporting mods like exhaust, induction, cams, boost controller, afr, etc and thats just to get to the power figures.

You may also need to look at additional parts IE engine build (I have to).

As well as suspension and braking will need some improvements.

I am looking at the T61 Single with all supporting mods... What is the drivetrain % loss for a manual?

 

At about 10 - 15%, I believe you to be spot on with needing a T61 at least to hit those sort of figures at the wheels!

 

And the build is going to cost in the region of £10K+.

 

You need to think about fueling, ic, additional cooling, ecu, all other supporting mods like exhaust, induction, cams, boost controller, afr, etc and thats just to get to the power figures.

 

You may also need to look at additional parts IE engine build (I have to).

 

As well as suspension and braking will need some improvements.

Well said, the 10K+ figure is going from complete stock to well tuned Single.

But to aim for 450-500 at the wheels, a stock healthy engine with stock Cams will be sufficient + all supporting fuelling Mods (Emanage or standalone, Injectors, Gauges etc) + APR bolts.

No need for cams TBH or 'Upgreaded Engine internals' for the power required above.

Well said, the 10K+ figure is going from complete stock to well tuned Single.

 

But to aim for 450-500 at the wheels, a stock healthy engine with stock Cams will be sufficient + all supporting fuelling Mods (Emanage or standalone, Injectors, Gauges etc) + APR bolts.

 

No need for cams TBH or 'Upgreaded Engine internals' for the power required above.

Basically I am doing the engine because it was already broken. Going to standard internals, but with uprated gaskets and bolts.

I am doing cams, because I can, and thats the only reason.

Also going with the Greddy Ultimate as the overall controller.

Lots of additional gauges required!!

450 was a slightly conservative figure, not at the pub now, otherwise it would have been around 500 - 550. Aim for 450 rwhp and anything more is a bonus!

Supporting fuel mods are 650 injectors, uk spec fuel pump, fuel pressure regulator and braid lines. Some of the mods are slightly leaning towards overkill, but are more a precautionary measure for my peace-of-mind.

But everything adds up, and things are generally expensive, but with the right planning and timing, parts can be obtained cheaper (thank you Nic).

Let us know what you decide, as there are a couple of us that are starting to prepare the cars for single turbo conversions.

Best advise I can give is go for a drive in a well setup BPU supra and then a well setup single turbo and make your decision. 450rwhp is a hell of lot of power, especially for the public roads.

G

I've recorded 305-315 atw, at what I call BPU-, that being decat, bleed valve (peaks at 1.1bar, drops to .9bar by redline) and CW SMIC. I have crazy rich AFR's, down to 10:1 at points, so with a proper boost controller I could probably get more. Can't be arsed though.

How the hell can you spend 10k+ on a T61?

Maybe Definately being stupid, but I thought a well tuned single would be much less than that? Or are we talking a complete engine rebuild with forged bits and pieces?

You dont have to TBH, if you just want to buy the kit, install it your self, use an AFC2 to manage the bigger injectors and you can skimp on the gauges etc.....quick 1 hour rolling road around 3.5k:) but thats not a propper set up is it?

To do it properly, alot of the money goes into the fuelling side and mapping plus upgrades, remember the 10K figure is a rough estimate from going from scratch to a well tuned car,

T61 Kit approx 2-2.5k

Fueling (Injectors,fuel pump etc Mapping) Easily 1-2.5k

Gauges etc anywhere from £100-£800

Bigger I/C (most reccomended) 4-800

Brakes?? £600 (UK spec min.)

Suspension?? 1k (chris wilson)

Exhaust £400

Labour for the install everything 800-1.5k

You wouldnt be that far off from 10k.

You dont have to TBH, if you just want to buy the kit, install it your self, use an AFC2 to manage the bigger injectors and you can skimp on the gauges etc.....quick 1 hour rolling road around 3.5k:) but thats not a propper set up is it?

 

To do it properly, alot of the money goes into the fuelling side and mapping plus upgrades, remember the 10K figure is a rough estimate from going from scratch to a well tuned car,

 

T61 Kit approx 2-2.5k

Fueling (Injectors,fuel pump etc Mapping) Easily 1-2.5k

Gauges etc anywhere from £100-£800

Bigger I/C (most reccomended) 4-800

Brakes?? £600 (UK spec min.)

Suspension?? 1k (chris wilson)

Exhaust £400

Labour for the install everything 800-1.5k

 

You wouldnt be that far off from 10k.

Not to mention:

boost controller - £250

cams - £500

fueling - £1500 (including mapping, but not ecu)

ultimate - £400 (hks or motec - £1500 - £2500)

Then comes the fitment of all this, unless of course you do it yourself.

All the little costs add up.

EDIT: also keep in mind that I am adding all of the parts at the same time as my engine build, expect for the turbo kit. Basically prepping the car, so that I can just apply the turbo kit in the future, so my numbers might be slightly out.

But then again, I also have time to wait, so I have loads of time to find the best prices, time to wait for the deliveries, etc.

I must also admit that I am overkilling some things, like the fueling (injectors and braided lines) and ic (3 row), but thats what I want to do.

Ah I see, thanks

Don't think I really counted up how much I've spent so far just to get to BPU sort of stage Once you take off the cost of the brakes, suspension, intercooler, exhaust etc it looks a bit more bearable

boost controller - £250

cams - £500

fueling - £1500 (including mapping, but not ecu)

Fuelling was mentioned above

This is where the difference of opinion comes in I think - surely you don't need cams for a single to be well set up and reliable, and would you actually need a boost controller if you're happy to run only one level of boost? A lot of this stuff is nice to have, but is it necessary for the T61 to be well set up? I think it's like PC shopping, you get into the "for a bit more I could have this as well..." train of thought.

Not second guessing anyone btw as I have no experience of singles, just thinking out loud

Fuelling was mentioned above

 

This is where the difference of opinion comes in I think - surely you don't need cams for a single to be well set up and reliable, and would you actually need a boost controller if you're happy to run only one level of boost? A lot of this stuff is nice to have, but is it necessary for the T61 to be well set up? I think it's like PC shopping, you get into the "for a bit more I could have this as well..." train of thought.

 

Not second guessing anyone btw as I have no experience of singles, just thinking out loud

I think that a boost controller is required... Unless you are happy to be driving around on max boost all the time, IE. 1.6 bar... sounds fun in the wet.

I know, but I put down what I am about to spend on fueling.

No cams are not required, but I have bought them as well.

Like I have said, I am pretty much going for everything that I can now, with my engine build. Then I will do the brakes, suspension, diff and traction. Then only after all that will I go for the single turbo.

I know I am going overboard on somethings, but I would rather do it now, than find out later that I should have done it.

EDIT: really comes down to what you budget is... can cost as little as 3.5K but as much as 10K, depending on what you want specifically.

BTW this is my experience of singles.

I think that a boost controller is required... Unless you are happy to be driving around on max boost all the time, IE. 1.6 bar... sounds fun in the wet.

Actually if he went with out a boost controller hed only run at base level boost, the strength of the spring and wastegate will determain what that will be, so chances are hell be running 0.8Bar or something small like that,

Remember a boost controller can only increase boost from base level boost up, and cannot decrease it below base level boost.

(Base level boost can be thought of boost that the car runs at without an Electronic boost controller not taking into account runaway boost which j specs suffer from due to the small wastegates which are easily overwhelmed when going full decat)

i stand corrected. Good to know. So more than definitely required then?

i stand corrected. Good to know. So more than definitely required then?

Its not required if your going to be happy with running stock boost the system offers, or you could use a more stiffer spring in the wastegate and increase the boost that way to a pre determained level.

But its just a hell of alot easier to have an EBC, it doesnt just simply increase the boost, depending on which EBC you opt for you can change the gain factors, or even have different boost settings for different gears etc.

It will also make mapping a hell of alot easier for obvious reasons if you want to get it mapped correctly. Not to mention have different boost settting for different driving styles etc, low boost for wet...etc!

The only cons to an EBC is its price,

But there are many pros to an EBC which will make a single setup more manageable and enjoyable.

Good explanation. I have one on my shopping list!!

Good Choice,

Just keep on digging, going single can be the best or worst Experience you can have with the supe, it can all go so wrong quite easily, hitch a ride with a few single boys on here, both auto and maunal and get a feel of what its like, its not about the xxBHP or the size of the turbo, its all about how it drives, and how it pulls a smile on your face when you come on boost lol and that TBH can only come from excellent mapping and tunning due to an excellent setup.

Choose wisely and ask lots of questions and even speak to people who have gone single and ask for any advice.

Good luck bud