paul mac Posted July 7, 2007 Share Posted July 7, 2007 i have just completed the service of a friends TT, he has had the car about 6 months so i was giving it "the works" the first thing i advised him to do when he got it was get rid of the HKS air filter which he did, anyway whilst soughting a blown bulb i had to take all the air filter/maf off exposing the top air feed that bolts to the turbos i noticed it had a build up of oil in there, quite normal as i remember from my TT days but when i went to wipe it clean it was gritty, it turned out to be about 3-4mm build up of what i can only describe as fine oily sand, i knew these filters were crap on filtration but not this bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supradriver Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 does it do any thing too a none turbo i got a twin air filter on mine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarkey Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 does it do any thing too a none turbo i got a twin air filter on mine It's still going to allow shit to pass into the engine. Can't be good whether it's on a Supra or a Nova. Go back to stock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supradriver Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 ow right is stock better like does it stop all the shit getting in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Massey Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 stock is better and you can get great panel filters for it too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarkey Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 Stock is better because the air filter is boxed up. The air being sucked in will be colder, as opposed to a filter completely exposed to a hot engine bay. If you really want a filter like the HKS - then (I think) the Apexi is a good one but box it up in a heat shielded box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 The filtration properties of paper are far superior to foam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerous brain Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 The filtration properties of a tea bag are better than that HKS mushroom. Note to self remember to replace said mushroom at JAE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyb10supra Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 as above really, stock is better in every aspect....perhaps those clever chaps at Toyota do know what there talking about after all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerous brain Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 Problem is I have a stupid great turbo and fmic piping in the way so have no choice but to have aftermarket induction filtration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyb10supra Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 Problem is I have a stupid great turbo and fmic piping in the way so have no choice but to have aftermarket induction filtration. Brian, why not do what Wez has done.....try and incorporate the pipe work into the stock airbox. It can be done and will certainly perform better that an after market element Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerous brain Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 Time my good man time. I have a sh*tload of work I need to do on my car and its just not getting done as I haven't the time (for that matter to actually drive it either) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyb10supra Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 Time my good man time I know the feeling only too well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandan Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 The filtration properties of paper are far superior to foam. On what basis? Thickness? cost? weight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 Pressure drop V micron sized particles removed V filter life. Don't underestimate how much wear and damage a bad air filter does to your engine, a new engine can be an engine needing a total rebuild in 10,000 miles given dusty conditions and hard usage. i speak form experience learned the expensive way... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 On what basis? Thickness? cost? weight? Filtration performance and usually cost as well. Paper is most effective in retaining the smaller particles. Just change it every year and you're always ahead of the game. I never thought that thickness and weight would be factors, but hey... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 After a couple of years running K&N filters I've not noticed any gritty buildup in pipes, joins, throttle body etc. -Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandan Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 Nor me Ian. My Supra has a K&N panel element and my other cars run K&N cones on long cold air intakes. John - I think you may have misundersttod me. I wasn't suggesting the mass of an air filter would be an issue ( ). What I was getting at was where Pete got his opinion from and under what circumstances did HE think paper was better than foam. I was trying to say that a foam filter could be made as good as a paper one but there would inevitably be trade offs in potential pressure drop, thickness, filter size, cost etc. A blanket statement saying foam is worse than paper sounded a little "rigid". Does a paper element offer as good pressure drop as a foam filter when wet for example? Is was a bit of a pointless comment anyway as I am not a supporter of foam filters and have never used one personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 Oiled foam is better on off-road machines that have to negotiate lots of dust without filter changes. When I was into enduro bikes it was the norm, as I recall. But you didn't expect your engine to survive 100K miles either. Hell, the whole bike was a wreck 20K miles (and dozens of falls) later. On a tight, high-performance road engine I wouldn't want anything else but a paper element (changed often if needed) Get yourself a leakdown tester and measure the degradation inside - it is cleary accelerated with non-paper filters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kieren1234 Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 I remember Jody t telling me about a test some people done on air filters. I think they strapped white cotton over the end of what is effectively a hoover. Put the filter on the end and sucked up loads of black dust. Most of the filters i.e. apexi, k & n etc were fine but the white cotton was now black using the HKS. Thank god ive just got rid of mine!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 I am pretty sure that heavy mining equipment that works in some of the most abrasive conditions on earth, still use the pre 1950's style oil bath filters after a paper element one. Oil bath filters were messy, needed cleaning out regularly, but were superb at removing any air borne particulates still left after matrix filtering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyb10supra Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 I was always told oil based filters are a bad idea due to microscopic oil particles finding there way to the MAF sensors etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandan Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 I was always told oil based filters are a bad idea due to microscopic oil particles finding there way to the MAF sensors etc Yes I've seen this first hand on an sti5 Impreza. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 Proper engines have a MAP sensor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 As far as I know oil mist also buggers up MAP sensors. This more of a problem from blowby though, and less from oiled filters. That's why OEM designs tend to have a little filter before the sensor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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