Eve Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 I tried this and found it really hard to do quick enough to make a difference. I understand the principle but my feet can't act as quick as my brain can think. If i'm not gonna get a lot out of it makes me feel better that I can't do it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 So its purely in todays cars a penis size thing to do!!?? Yes. It's bollocks. And its double DEclutching not "double clutching" - or at least it always was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kranz Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 Yes. It's bollocks. And its double DEclutching not "double clutching" - or at least it always was. No it aint !! An advanced driver will use it on a downshift to match engine speed to gearbox speed by a small application of the accelerator in neutral (as Homer described) in order to make the gear change seamless. The reason the gearchange needs to be seamless is to maintain the balance of the drive, grip and equilibrium of the car. Think of it this way, if you're hacking into a roundabout and need to select a lower gear to accelerate around and out which would you rather do.... bang the clutch out at any old mismatched RPM's while on the limit of handling and upset the balance of the car or seamlessly slip it into a lower gear without feeling a thing and power through and out of the manouvre? I'm pants at it, but I'm sure Class One could do a good demo Its all about smoothness & balance, which in a Supe would be a good thing as they don't half kick you in the arse when it goes wrong in the wet!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 Bah. I understand the theory but I still maintain that it is bollocks because (almost?) nobody can really do it consistently well IRL. IMO it's one of the bullshit things people talk about 'cos they think it make them sound like a driving god. (pro racing driving excepted, maybe) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonB Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 But what most people are describing (matching revs to speed to do a seamless downshift) is heel and toe, not double declutch. Press clutch, blip throttle, raise clutch just as engine revs are at the correct point. That's not pointless, but double declutching - raising the clutch in neutral - is pointless and just slows gearchanges down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 Thanks Simon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonB Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 I heel and toe when downshifting - sometimes I get it right, sometimes not . It's a lot easier when you're really going for it on track or something, but I do it on the road as practice. Still not that good at it though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miko_supra Posted June 24, 2007 Share Posted June 24, 2007 I heel and toe when downshifting - sometimes I get it right, sometimes not . It's a lot easier when you're really going for it on track or something, but I do it on the road as practice. Still not that good at it though! but heel and toe is used for when slowing down as you have your toes on the brake. (did it a couple of times but i got cramp and i was trying to drive with a bent right foot in agony!) and as homer says; I give it a bit of a blip when changing down for when i want to go faster, goes in a lot more smoother...dont even think about it now, just all part of the process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Posted June 24, 2007 Share Posted June 24, 2007 I just tried it but made a right mess. Apparently you need a manual gearbox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colsoop Posted June 24, 2007 Share Posted June 24, 2007 Yes, When i had to drive a green goddess druing the firemans strikes . Not needed on a modern car. Although i do the old heel and toe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvershark44 Posted June 24, 2007 Share Posted June 24, 2007 I think the term "double clutchin" refers to the words of Vin Diesel in the fast the the furious. But considering they "pop the hood" on a Supra aero top revealing exclaiming "2JZ No Shit!" in excitement, when its actually very clearly an N/A engine, I have never taken much notice of the lingo used in that film. Still i dont care what anyone says, I love that film so much. And I have absolutely no clue as to why! lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted June 24, 2007 Share Posted June 24, 2007 But considering they "pop the hood" on a Supra aero top revealing exclaiming "2JZ No Shit!" in excitement, when its actually very clearly an N/A engine, I have never taken much notice of the lingo used in that film. whilst there is undoubted inaccuracies in the film the one you've used to highlight them is in fact accurate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imi Posted June 24, 2007 Share Posted June 24, 2007 Think of it this way, if you're hacking into a roundabout and need to select a lower gear to accelerate around and out which would you rather do.... Always thought youd select the correct gear before entering a roundabout? Great find Homer....I love that clip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbourner Posted June 24, 2007 Share Posted June 24, 2007 whilst there is undoubted inaccuracies in the film the one you've used to highlight them is in fact accurate Yeah but it's the fact that they're excited about an NA that's wrong! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markymark Posted June 24, 2007 Share Posted June 24, 2007 Yeah but it's the fact that they're excited about an NA that's wrong! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvershark44 Posted June 24, 2007 Share Posted June 24, 2007 whilst there is undoubted inaccuracies in the film the one you've used to highlight them is in fact accurate Yeah thats very true, but the way they say it, it as if they are expecting the turbo engine. But yeah your right both 2JZ's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Class One Posted June 24, 2007 Share Posted June 24, 2007 I don't heel & toe as some put it. I've neve been taught to do it and I couldn't do it if I tried anyway. I NEVER change gear at the same time as braking in a manual anyway unless it's impractical to do so ie very steep downhill into a left turn for example or to show that you anticipate to do it as part of your planning phase. What Steve (K14 SUP) was getting at was how we are trained in the system of car control. It's not double de clutching as Jake quite right points out, it's about seperating braking and gearchanging and do things safely and palnning and blah blah blah...... For example, you're gunning along a dual carriageway at some considerable speed. In the distance you can see a roundabout with 4 otions including a reciprocation (u turn). The minute you see it you'll be thinking " first point of danger from the right, planning to stop, but looking to go." You stay on the gas for as long as you can (imagine no other road users infront for this example). Then you'll be looking across laterally if you can to see if any other roadusers are approaching from the right. You're in top gear. At this point you'd use your brakes ONLY to slow you down, all the time looking for the opportunity to go, but still being prepared to stop. No banging down through the box, just the brakes. Then when you've got all your braking done and you're good to go you THEN you come off the brakes, change gear slowly and smoothly into the appropriate gear to negotiate the hazard (roundabout) and give thr throtle a blip usually to make it smoother (something about spinning up the flywheel, mechanical sympathy and some other guff I've forgotten). That's about road driving, yes is slower, cumbersome and bloody foreign to you when you do it. That moment when you come off the brakes and change gear and engage drive to the wheels again is weird and takes a long time to get used to it. Heel and toe is for the race track or showing off. When going up throught the box I was always taught slowly and smoothly. Ie in the time it takes you to say Severiano Ballesteros . We only do it, because its part of a phase in the system. The system for us is designed for safety and it's not the quickest way or doing things. But it makes us as drivers think more about what we're doing and why, not to be a driving god, but just to be that bit safer. That's why I'm always faster in an auto, and why Police fast cars are autos, because they don't have to think about the gear phase in the system, they always have the right gear to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul mac Posted June 24, 2007 Share Posted June 24, 2007 I just tried it but made a right mess. Apparently you need a manual gearbox PMSL ............you manual boys just keep fiddling pushing pedals and sticks and things while us slick shifting auto boys go sailing past :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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