Manic Posted September 1, 2004 Share Posted September 1, 2004 Damn simple, Get a loan for £5000 and get a Toyota Surf for the winter and put the Supra in the garage:p Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerous brain Posted September 1, 2004 Share Posted September 1, 2004 Originally posted by Manic Damn simple, Get a loan for £5000 and get a Toyota Surf for the winter and put the Supra in the garage:p Matt And get the bus home if it rains whilst you are at work??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceMan Posted September 1, 2004 Share Posted September 1, 2004 Just to add to the above: I got a wobble on early in my Supra's UK life(!) by accelerating gently after travelling over a muddy stretch of road. The Jap-crap tyres that were still fitted didn't help much either - so beware! Also I had a scare when over-braking on an off-camber corner over a blind crest with a lorry coming towards me - the back tried to shake free. How I survived I'm not sure but I'm sure the lorry driver was probably more scared than me (I could just visualise the potential damage in my mind!). So it's not just acceleration to beware of! Decent tyres are the biggest factor here however as with no or little tread left you're asking for trouble. I also tried mine in the snow and ice once. After failing to get anywhere due to wheelspin even at low speeds I gave up! Ice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amazing grace Posted September 2, 2004 Share Posted September 2, 2004 OK I can appreciate what you lot are saying about learning your car's limits therefore becoming better acquainted with your car's capabbilities but I dont know of a large empty space near me(Dorking) Perhaps you lot could help me and someone to give me some tips as well would be great!!!!!! Driving is something that I hold dear so being able to do it better is def a thing I would up for . Regards Sheena:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted September 2, 2004 Share Posted September 2, 2004 Personally I'm a huge RLTC fan. I've also grown up with RWD cars, so, power in a rwd car, or the back end breaking lose, doesn't scare me in the slightest. IMHO it would be one of the first modifications. I do agree with AJI that you should be able to control rear wheel slides, but why learn at the expense of possibly losing control. Simply turn the RL to a lower setting and have fun whilst learning, using the RL as a safety net. I like RLTC mainly for giving you the ability to pull out of a junction or on to a roundabout with more confidence than without a traction aid. Sure you can do it without, but RL just lets you do it easier, more relaxed and probably quicker with less danger. I did a drag day a little while ago, and halfway through the day it started raining. Interestingly, my times were only about 1/2 a second down from wet launches. Recently I've had a slight power increase on my car. On one of it's first outings, as we left the rolling road, I'd forgotten that RL was off. I simply floored the car and it span up madly in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd with ease. Later that evening, (this time with RL back on), I could hear the RL cutting in whilst floored in 4th at over 100mph, but through all the gears, the car drove easily, and was very controllable. I know I could have released the power a bit without traction control, but my foot and head combo doesn't react as quickly as RLTC If you were to damage the car whilst trying to learn rear wheel slides, I'm sure it would cost far more than the £650ish that RLTC costs, and I can't see any enjoyment in repairing damage, but I do get enjoyment from RLTC. I wouldn't say it's essential, but I highly recommend it. And I'm more than happy to take anyone out for a demo run. (once my clutch is fixed). All IMHO of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manic Posted September 2, 2004 Share Posted September 2, 2004 Originally posted by dangerous brain And get the bus home if it rains whilst you are at work??? Fair do's, I must admit I was really referring to Nov-Feb ish I mean if its raining in the summer you basically adjust your driving technique and DONT plant your foot. I think most owners of powerful RWD cars without TC must have found themselves tankslapping at least once or twice of roundabouts etc. Besides im just jealous because my N/A has no ABS so RLTC is not an option. Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerous brain Posted September 2, 2004 Share Posted September 2, 2004 My N/A doesn't have traction control either so I drive in the rain with a certain amount of tenter hooks. It really is like driving miss daisy time off roundabouts and waiting until I am all the way around a corner and going straight again before applying any power. I also stick it in manu mode through all slow corners in the rain because it was the auto box kicking down that caused my first tail out experience. Given the choice I would rather have TC for no-brain daily driving Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve W2 Posted September 2, 2004 Share Posted September 2, 2004 Originally posted by whitesupraboy2 So looks like that winter weather is creeping back for good. Just wanted to let the newbie's know to be careful in wet unless you have RLTC. The supra can be a bit of handlefull on some wet roads....and as for snow...lets not go there! Great weather prediction WSB2 its only a wintery 27 degrees on Sunday and sunshine until Tuesday (as far as the 5 day forecast goes). You would know about spinning wouldn't you!!? Its not about relying on RLTC, it's about knowing how to drive a rear wheel car when the road surface is poor;) Your only young, you'll learn:D maybe yours is more prone to spinning being the lardy white version:D :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerous brain Posted September 2, 2004 Share Posted September 2, 2004 Originally posted by Steve W2 maybe yours is more prone to spinning being the lardy white version I thought that WSB2 was quite skinny lol;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitesupraboy2 Posted September 2, 2004 Author Share Posted September 2, 2004 Originally posted by Steve W2 Great weather prediction WSB2 its only a wintery 27 degrees on Sunday and sunshine until Tuesday (as far as the 5 day forecast goes). You would know about spinning wouldn't you!!? Its not about relying on RLTC, it's about knowing how to drive a rear wheel car when the road surface is poor;) Your only young, you'll learn:D maybe yours is more prone to spinning being the lardy white version oi bum bandit out my thread lol and i cant believe weather...i should do these predictions more regularly lol I think what happened was, my white paint made me go faster and my brakes couldnt cope with the added speed by my white paint and without no lag the power was instance from the loud peddle all IMHO of course Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerous brain Posted September 2, 2004 Share Posted September 2, 2004 Originally posted by whitesupraboy2 oi bum bandit out my thread lol and i cant believe weather...i should do these predictions more regularly lol I think what happened was, my white paint made me go faster and my brakes couldnt cope with the added speed by my white paint and without no lag the power was instance from the loud peddle all IMHO of course You should help the guy in that other thread with his advert with waffle like that lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve W2 Posted September 2, 2004 Share Posted September 2, 2004 Originally posted by whitesupraboy2 I think what happened was, my white paint made me go faster and my brakes couldnt cope with the added speed by my white paint and without no lag the power was instance from the loud peddle all IMHO of course paint my white red gei are you! Have you had any more nasty dreams yet Mr Stealth, or have you unsubscribed from this thread since WSB2 started speaking b0110ck5! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitesupraboy2 Posted September 2, 2004 Author Share Posted September 2, 2004 hey these are some of my most informative and most useful replies....hmmmm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerous brain Posted September 2, 2004 Share Posted September 2, 2004 Originally posted by Steve W2 paint my white red gei are you! You what??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminator Posted September 2, 2004 Share Posted September 2, 2004 Originally posted by Scooter Can someone tell me how RLTC works in the following example (just curious) you are accelerating round a motorway slip (one of those 270 degree jobbies) and the traction is working away but then the corner radius tightens (or perhaps the road surface changes to one with lower grip), when you steer a tighter line all the tc can do is stop all power but for the car to actually slow will take a little time. Now unless there is quite a traction margin on the RL that means in my mind that you could suddenly be in possible loose the back end situation. Now you could (sensibly) say that you should not be going that fast perhaps but the RL was working away so not problem right? RL adds additional cut as it detects cornering, also as the rears or rear spins more it progressively adds more and more cut. RL constantly monitors so adjust faster than you can perceive. So depending on the speed you will make the bend. It is all down to levels of grip available RL can only deal with rotational slip. Round a bend you have a lateral slip limit before break away, total grip will be a component of the two. Experienced drivers of high power cars can balance the two and hold the line. But get a sudden change in grip, rotational grip may be lost leading straight into lateral movement of the car due to total loss of lateral grip. With RL you have a greater chance of getting out of the same sudden change in grip levels as the system will have reacted long before you feel a thing. In the fractions of a second where in a non TC car will go from little spin to a big and detectable spin, the driver will not have altered throttle position so power will be constant. If you have ever been in a RLTC car driven very hard in the rain you will get the picture. However I totally agree that you need to know the limits of your car and would recommend everything previously said about getting to know limits etc. But being and good RWD driver and owning a car with RLTC are not mutually exclusive. We are all individuals and make our own choices. The great thing about RLTC is, you can adjust it to do what you want and it can be turned off too, so you have the best of both worlds. In summer I have a dat for warm surfaces and I have mine set to 20 % or switched off when I want to have human control of drift levels and wheel spin. In the winter I use a tighter dat and the low slip numbers come in handy, changing setting is a common thing to do on the move on cold damp surfaces in response to changing general road conditions. Wet setting standing quarters are exhilarating and in the dry it actually saves rubber and extends tire life. I would recommend it to anyone experienced or otherwise as it is priced lower than the repair costs of one simple mistake. I will never forget the look on Matts face as I sat next to him in his car coming out of junctions and roundabouts after I had tweeked his RLTC to work properly. He still obviously enjoys it today;) Some will never have it in their car, others will see it as an essential modification when increasing power. Nothing more to be said; love it or hate it, it is here to stay, the debates will go on.:flame Dev :flame Dev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted September 2, 2004 Share Posted September 2, 2004 Originally posted by Terminator I will never forget the look on Matts face as I sat next to him in his car coming out of junctions and roundabouts after I had tweeked his RLTC to work properly. He still obviously enjoys it today;) I still remember the feeling. Expecting the car to break away under full throttle exiting that roundabout... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted September 2, 2004 Share Posted September 2, 2004 Originally posted by Terminator However I totally agree that you need to know the limits of your car and would recommend everything previously said about getting to know limits etc. But being and good RWD driver and owning a car with RLTC are not mutually exclusive. We are all individuals and make our own choices. Exactly, and i don't think having RLTC equals a bad driver. This is what causes great conflict and defensiveness in previous threads. i would also not put myself in the 'would never have it catagory' and I am not saying "i'm a great driver i don't need it, its for those that can't control their cars properly etc" my only beef is when it is pushed as a safety aid more than a performance enhancing one. Things can go pear shaped despite having RLTC and when they do they will then tend to happen at higher speeds. Drivers may not perceive where they are in terms of the grip limits of the car if continually relying on the traction from the early days of ownership. This can lead IMO to a false sense of security for some people whereby the boundaries are pushed far further than they would be if they were without the assistance. In this respect whilst i've absolutely no doubt a RLTC equipped car would win a wet weather 'traffic light grand prix' or spirited drive round some roundabouts i'm not sure in the long run it will make you any safer, that IMO is more of a personal mindset / attitude /awareness / experience issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted September 3, 2004 Share Posted September 3, 2004 Originally posted by Matt Harwood I still remember the feeling. Expecting the car to break away under full throttle exiting that roundabout... this in a way sums it up for me, Matts memory of this event so sticks in this mind because of the massive improvement he experienced compared to previous cars with no traction or not the best data files etc. For someone to experience the 'perfect dat' rltc supra from the off doesn't seem right, or for me, to necessariy be the most sensible route to take. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amazing grace Posted September 3, 2004 Share Posted September 3, 2004 After having read this thread with great interest, I have turned my RLTC down so as to be able to learn more about how my car handles unaided/or more so. I am noticing a difference in how I am reacting to the car but the weather is dry and I am not sure which setting to put it on on the wet/Wet I would have thought but hell what do I know.Lol:p Gets coat:music: Regards, Sheena:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJI Posted September 3, 2004 Share Posted September 3, 2004 Sheena : There must be somewhere locally to where you live where you can go and find an open area of tarmac. An empty superstore car park, an quite industrial estate or something like that. As I suggested earlier try going round in circles or even 'figure of 8's' and feed in more and more power until you find the front starting to understeer. This will give you an idea of low speed front end grip. Then if there is enough room try widening the circle with a bit more speed and progressively 'throwing' the car into a turn to find out much rear grip you have at low(ish) speed. Then to find out how much rear grip is available with the power on try planting your foot quickly so the rear steps out and practice 'catching' it. The above will help you in most roundabout situations if you either start to loose the front or rear end. The fun starts when its all done in the wet ! :-) If there simply isn't any wide open areas then I would highly reccomend a trackday on an airfield circuit where there is plenty of run-off so you can practice at whatever speed you fancy. My views on TC systems are such because I'm a racing driver and I'm a purist when it comes to driving. I like some electronic aids but when it comes to 'me' doing all the work when pushing the car to its limit then I'm all for that. I like to know exactly where the grip limit is for all weather conditions and what grip is available for different tyre pressures and temperatures etc. I'm big into the physics side of driving and understanding why a car reacts the way it does when at its limit. Now, most everyday drivers are not like that and are are happy to drive their car with extra electronic aids but I'm assuming you bought a Supra due to its performance potential.... so why not explore it? :-) (Safely of course) That is also not to say that by having RLTC that you are any less of an enthusiast, just that everyone drives to their own concious safety level and if that means with or without TC aids then good for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminator Posted September 3, 2004 Share Posted September 3, 2004 Sheena Wet is the most protective setting allowing the least slip, round corners that equals 0% so the slightest hint of slip such as a as a cm or more movement in the rears compared with the fronts and power is slightly reduced. 10% slip is supposed to give the best performance advantage. 20% allows a fair amount of slip before any thing happens to the power. On any setting as soon as turning is detected (adjustable) the slip allowed is reduced by 5%. Off is good too;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amazing grace Posted September 4, 2004 Share Posted September 4, 2004 AJI, I will do my best to find a big car park to go practice on, I can appreciate that to a purist RLTC must seem a bit sacreligious, and if I was just driving myself instead of taxing kids around I would prolly switch it off sometimes and have a go, meanwhile I am verry much the Supra lover and really do want to learn to master my beast, therefore increase confidence and knowledge and consiquently become a better driver. Thanks Terminator for your advise, stupid I know but I was a bit in the dark about the % settings on thhe RLTC and what they actually meant, I am sure Matt did tell me but could not remember what he said!!! By the way still would love to receive the disk so Saturday will look up the info you asked for and PM you. Thanx again m8. Regards, Sheena:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerous brain Posted September 4, 2004 Share Posted September 4, 2004 Sheena if you are available on sunday morning I have 2 track slots booked on Silverstone across the day. The real Brain doesn't want to use her slot ie can't be assed gettin out of bed on a sunday. If you want her slot in our car (its track insured) you are more than welcome to take the lesser powered N/A around Silverstone for a blat, I will sit passenger for a bit of advice so you can see how the car reacts (apart from the power it should handle the same). Offers up let me know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.