s crane Posted December 21, 2006 Share Posted December 21, 2006 Different exhaust and one cat out;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jase_93tt Posted December 21, 2006 Share Posted December 21, 2006 Mines at the wheels, not at the flywheel. Im not sure what % the A/T mission losses are, but guess 20-25%, so guestimate flywheel figure would be around 385bhp. Figures will also vary from dyno to dyno But thats back in the prehistoric days of BPU, now I run a phat single and make much more power, enough make you not want to care what the figures are- its too fast anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted December 21, 2006 Share Posted December 21, 2006 Mines at the wheels, not at the flywheel. Im not sure what % the A/T mission losses are, but guess 20-25%, .. So according to this logic, a run-of-the-mill TT which here makes 400 "at the flywheel" actually consumes 100bhp in transmission losses, right? Do you know how many KWs that is? If that were the case, then after a few minutes of full-throttle operation the amount of heat buildup would be enormous. And that is just transmission heat, quite separate to engine heat. (hint: maybe the transmission losses are a bit lower than that) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hodge Posted December 21, 2006 Author Share Posted December 21, 2006 Holy shit. Ive started something here havent I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaymdee Posted December 21, 2006 Share Posted December 21, 2006 I agree with John on the losses bit, 20-25% seems extremely large. I've never had mine on a dyno as they seem to vary massively and unless you are comparing similar vehicles on the same dyno in the same session and only looking at comparing measured torque figures, I'm not sure what the point is. Obviously if you're tuning a car and making tweaks and want to see the effect, then there's a valid reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted December 21, 2006 Share Posted December 21, 2006 Holy shit. Ive started something here havent I. Nah, it had already started long ago before you even turned up. Tis the season of goodwill, wot de feck, have a 10% bhp compensation, on the house! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted December 21, 2006 Share Posted December 21, 2006 380 @ the wheels on stock turbos is amazing, with hybrids (400 @ the wheels is fantastic). I dont think ANYONE has managed that before, certainly not on this forum anyway. Your car must be special./. check my sig. -black car on hybrids Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Posted December 21, 2006 Share Posted December 21, 2006 These are festive days, do you really think anybody wants to hear The Truth? ...C'mon, throw the dog a bone... Thats the way I thought this thread was going too! LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminator Posted December 21, 2006 Share Posted December 21, 2006 Dyno's improve beers sales, stopwatches tell the truth. I have never used a dyno as I cant see the point, probably will for AEM mapping, but the figures will be irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted December 22, 2006 Share Posted December 22, 2006 Aye, no matter what the RR bull printout says, the accelerometer will have to confirm. Usually it doesn't. It kinda puts a lid to false hopes, dreams, goodwill and wishful thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLicense Posted December 22, 2006 Share Posted December 22, 2006 Not this one again..... Any dyno (and I mean any - Engine or Chassis) is a relative measurement tool. Take a measurement, make a change, take another measurement and see what the difference is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheefa Posted December 22, 2006 Share Posted December 22, 2006 380 @ the wheels on stock turbos is amazing, with hybrids (400 @ the wheels is fantastic). I dont think ANYONE has managed that before, certainly not on this forum anyway. Your car must be special./. Thanks for your kind (maybe slightly sarcastic?) words Imi To be honest mate, like Chris said, I don't really trust the printout, or the previous owner! However, it was dyno'd by Engine Advantages in April iirc and did show 380 at the wheels. However, not sure if this is an inflated figure! I don't know what else has been done to the car either really. The below in my sig I'm sure of though. I'll scan the printout tomoz for everyone to have a looksie as on the lash tonight Cheers, Greg PS: Rich - so you hit over 400rwhp on Hyrbids? Set up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted December 22, 2006 Share Posted December 22, 2006 Sheefa, I wouldn't take any bhp comments very seriously, we all laugh at them and poke holes and have fun in general. It's the internet after all. If a car does a 10sec run, that's proof of power. If it struggles to do 13s, no RR printout can save the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrickTT Posted December 22, 2006 Share Posted December 22, 2006 When I dynoed mine at the http://www.japworcs.co.uk RR day a few months ago it made 418bhp at the fly (the printout is in my garage). On the same day Petes BPU VVTi made 365 fwhp and Burnas stock uk spec made 301. I think those figures are pretty accurate, but would be interested to hear what CW thinks as he knows Petes car better than most. Also Chris, there was several runs on BPU cars with stock 440cc injectors and no fuel pressure mods, and they all ran quite rich (between 10:1 - 11:1 AFR). I know the injectors are fully open at that point so some fine fuelling control is lost, but wouldn't fitting bigger injectors make this worse unless the fuelling is trimmed back below stock using an SAFC or similar fuel controller? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imi Posted December 22, 2006 Share Posted December 22, 2006 Thanks for your kind (maybe slightly sarcastic?) words Imi Greg, forget about flywheel figures cause those are only estimations. Whats important is RWHP figures and to use the SAME Dyno time and time again (if you make changes to the setup and want to measure the difference as TLicense pointed out). In any case, 380RWHP is extremely impressive from standard injectors let alone hybrid turbos.... Now if you tell me that Rich is pushing 473 RWHP off hybrids on standard injectors....then I will say to that. At the end of the day, if the plot brings a smile to your face and make you look all butch in front of your mates...then I say that its £40 well spent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s crane Posted December 22, 2006 Share Posted December 22, 2006 as follows some of the cars bhp at engine advantages name, car, guesstimate, actual bhp at flywheel. Darryl (me) - S13 - 280 - 300.1 Andy083 - S13 - 250 - 302.4 Craig - R32GTR - 340 - 342 Ronnie - R32GTR - 500 - 471 Gary - GTS-T - 270 - 287 Clive - Viper - 475 - 454 ( Couldn't stop wheel spin, even at 160 mph) Ben - Golf - 150 -154 Carl - M3 - 311 - 319 Duane - Supra N/A - 230 - 227 Steve - Supra TT - 330 - 357 Jo - SupraTT - 330 - 232 Turbo Problems second turbo not coming in Matt - Type R - 210 - 219.9 Jason - STi Prodrive - 320 - 300.8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorin Posted December 22, 2006 Share Posted December 22, 2006 If a car does a 10sec run, that's proof of power. It's proof of traction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorin Posted December 22, 2006 Share Posted December 22, 2006 Now if you tell me that Rich is pushing 473 RWHP off hybrids on standard injectors....then I will say to that. RHHP, and who said that was stock injectors? It may not have been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted December 22, 2006 Share Posted December 22, 2006 It's proof of traction quite, and there are weight assumptions thrown in as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imi Posted December 22, 2006 Share Posted December 22, 2006 RHHP, and who said that was stock injectors? It may not have been. What's RHHP? He never said that it was running on different injectors & neither did Greg.. (listed every other mod apart from injectors)....so go figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUPRASUZUKI Posted December 22, 2006 Share Posted December 22, 2006 Not this one again..... Any dyno (and I mean any - Engine or Chassis) is a relative measurement tool. Take a measurement, make a change, take another measurement and see what the difference is. Agreed. Ideal for mapping and trying out mod's. If a car does a 10sec run, that's proof of power. If it struggles to do 13s, no RR printout can save the day. Can't eally agree with this though. There's more to a poor time than just lack of power. Any goon can get a poor time, even with big hp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorin Posted December 22, 2006 Share Posted December 22, 2006 What's RHHP? Rear Hub Horsepower. As measured by Dynapack dyno's that bolt to the hubs so eliminating losses through wheels/tyres/traction. i.e. RHHP will be higher than RWHP but you've still got some drivetrain losses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted December 22, 2006 Share Posted December 22, 2006 ..There's more to a poor time than just lack of power. Any goon can get a poor time, even with big hp. True. If we want to delve deeper into this, then 'trap speed' is a better indicator of horsepower. It is less dependent on traction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imi Posted December 22, 2006 Share Posted December 22, 2006 Rear Hub Horsepower. As measured by Dynapack dyno's that bolt to the hubs so eliminating losses through wheels/tyres/traction. i.e. RHHP will be higher than RWHP but you've still got some drivetrain losses. Got you - would that be the same as an engine dyno? If so, then hardly any use as in real life situations what matters is how much one is pushing to the tarmac....hence RWHP being more relevant compared to the two, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorin Posted December 24, 2006 Share Posted December 24, 2006 Got you - would that be the same as an engine dyno? No because you've still got drive shaft, diff, etc. losses on a dynapack dyno. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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