BPU / Super chip question

[Steve Sherwood]

Don't chip it, keep it std or go for BPU when you have the cash.

[Conrad]

Agreed - don't bother with the chip.

 

As for ging BPU don't do it all at once. Just keep an eye on the Parts for Sale section on here and pick up the bits cheaply as and when they become available.

 

I think I spent roughly £600 - £700 going BPU over 3/4 months. Fitted everything myself too as it's fairly straight forward.

 

Your main outlay will be your exhaust but pretty much everything else is less than £100 apiece.

[mikeyb10supra]

who knows , whos the expert, everybody has different views opinions, it would be nice to meet a true guru, someone whos built an engine up from scratch and knows all the ins and outs.

I have been to local "specialists" and have come away feeling , lets say, less than confident in there knowledge of pretty basic components (std) under the bonnet.

 

Speak to Terry S, Chris W or Migster or Digsy on this board about a supra chip and see what they say

[markjodrell]

Agreed - don't bother with the chip.

 

As for ging BPU don't do it all at once. Just keep an eye on the Parts for Sale section on here and pick up the bits cheaply as and when they become available.

 

I think I spent roughly £600 - £700 going BPU over 3/4 months. Fitted everything myself too as it's fairly straight forward.

 

Your main outlay will be your exhaust but pretty much everything else is less than £100 apiece.

 

Thanks for all the advise ,

 

Conrad

just off the subject, how is your front number plate attached to the bumper, some kind of plate holder or ??????

[RobSheffield]

You may not have heard one for the supra but it can be done.

 

E.g, A friend of mine with an SX14A had triple 5 Injectors dropped in, the guy who carrried out the work also soldered in a chip within the ECU to manage the injectors.

 

I'm not saying you can do the above for BPU etc, but the car can be chipped as such.

 

An SX14A is not a Supra

 

There are signal fudgers but the Supra ECU cannot be remapped.

[markjodrell]

Is decatting illegal , i.e if you got pulled over in one of those road side checks, handbrakes /lights etc, if just say a cop was in the know and could see that both cats had been taken off could you get "dun"

 

I know a decatted car will not pass the mot.

 

Therefore it would invalidate the insurance ,because if it is illegal you could not declare the decat to the insurance company

 

just a thought

[Scoboblio]

you could not declare the decat to the insurance company

 

Nope, but you can declare a "full stainless exhaust" As for the legality of it I'm sure it is illegal to decat the car but I've not heard many (if any) stories of people being caught, simply put the back on back in for the MOT.

[Soonto_HAS_soop]

I've declared my decat to the insurance company, they list it as a plain "exhaust modification", but I make sure to actually say no cats.

 

If you get caught at a roadside metering station, then I believe that you could get done for having them missing or just failing the test.

[Chris Wilson]

the guy in question said the original cannot be mapped with a pc like many modern cars but there is a replaccement chip available which has been pre mapped, he seems a decent enough bloke who has an alarm / car elec business:search:

 

Basically he is talking about a fuel cut eliminator. best get an extarnal one, and save a lot of money, IMO.

[Tricky-Ricky]

You may not have heard one for the supra but it can be done.

 

E.g, A friend of mine with an SX14A had triple 5 Injectors dropped in, the guy who carrried out the work also soldered in a chip within the ECU to manage the injectors.

 

I'm not saying you can do the above for BPU etc, but the car can be chipped as such.

 

The S14 ECU has a rom chip which can be remapped ( and i suspect the guy who remapped it was Jez Horsham, who is very good;) ) i also suspect that the Supra ECU has a rom chip that carries the fuel and timing maps that also can be remapped, in fact i will talk to Jez and ask, which hopefully will settle a discussion;)

As for Superchips i'm with everybody else, a FCD and bleed valve, not exactly what you call VFM:p

[Darren]

who knows , whos the expert, everybody has different views opinions, it would be nice to meet a true guru, someone whos built an engine up from scratch and knows all the ins and outs.

I have been to local "specialists" and have come away feeling , lets say, less than confident in there knowledge of pretty basic components (std) under the bonnet.

 

Thats a fair point but in this instance a 'superchip' for a Supra is really a:

 

FCD Fuel cut defender which overides the standard safety cut for boost.

 

and a

 

Bleed Valve that allows you to increase the boost.

 

Your car would be quicker because you are running higher boost. Its just a agricultural way of doing it and in the past has been used to almost con supra owners out of money because the parts are for nothing but they have tried to charge £400-1000 for the service!

 

I know people who bought Supras had them Superchipped then took their CATS out too because they never knew what they're superchip actually did. Guess what theyre cars went bang big time.

[Conrad]

Thanks for all the advise ,

 

Conrad

just off the subject, how is your front number plate attached to the bumper, some kind of plate holder or ??????

 

Missed this last time round bud - nothing fancy, just double sided tape!

[Tricky-Ricky]

Well it seems most ECU have a Rom chip that can in most cases be rewritten, but not all, some maps are contained in the processor and cannot be accessed, it would need someone who really knows ECUs to determine if the Supra one can be rewritten, if there are Mines ECUs or similar in existence for the Supra, then i suspect that it can be done, however i would lay money on Superchips not being able to do this;)

[tDR]

Well it seems most ECU have a Rom chip that can in most cases be rewritten, but not all, some maps are contained in the processor and cannot be accessed, it would need someone who really knows ECUs to determine if the Supra one can be rewritten, if there are Mines ECUs or similar in existence for the Supra, then i suspect that it can be done, however i would lay money on Superchips not being able to do this;)

 

There are Mines ECU's available for the Supra - I've had a look at my m8's (2JayZ on here) and it just looks like a standard Toyota ECU that's been opened up and a new ROM inserted as from the outside it's the same apart from a little badge saying Mines VX Rom on it along with a genuine part number.

 

Would be good if Jez could start offering staged upgrade chips for the Supra TT's as his 200SX chips are excellent. I guess stage 1 for our cars would have to be mapped for BPU with Walbro, double decat and up to 1.2bar boost.

 

Cheers,

 

Brian.

[Tricky-Ricky]

There are Mines ECU's available for the Supra - I've had a look at my m8's (2JayZ on here) and it just looks like a standard Toyota ECU that's been opened up and a new ROM inserted as from the outside it's the same apart from a little badge saying Mines VX Rom on it along with a genuine part number.

 

Would be good if Jez could start offering staged upgrade chips for the Supra TT's as his 200SX chips are excellent. I guess stage 1 for our cars would have to be mapped for BPU with Walbro, double decat and up to 1.2bar boost.

 

Cheers,

 

Brian.

 

Thats interesting, i did mention to Jez that it might be worth his while looking into the Supra ECU but so far he hasn't commented on that, but hopefully it may have sparked an idea;)

it certainly would be a much better prospect for a lot of people, and save on mapping costs etc.

[Thorin]

Well it should actually be possible, but certainly "Superchips" won't do this, it'll be an FCD.

 

See this post http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showpost.php?p=1003200&postcount=61

 

I suspect the device mentioned is this Techtom unit http://www.technosquareinc.com/might.htm

[Tricky-Ricky]

Well it should actually be possible, but certainly "Superchips" won't do this, it'll be an FCD.

 

See this post http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showpost.php?p=1003200&postcount=61

 

I suspect the device mentioned is this Techtom unit http://www.technosquareinc.com/might.htm

 

My personal comment on the first link as far as timing changes goes is "cobblers" if you fit a single to the Supra or even go TTC, the base timing map is quite retarded due to the first sequential turbo making + boost by 1600-2000 RPM, if it didn't you would be getting det, if you then change the point at which + boost is made by fitting a turbo that doesn't start to produce + boost until 3-4000 RPM you are left with a big area that has the ignition retarded when the engine is essentially NA, i also think that the fuel map will also be rich in this area, so IMO there are some good gains to be made in lower RPM pick up to be made.

[Steven Cordiner]

My personal view is I don't like chips or piggy back units. The Toyota ECU's generally have vast amounts of code and surprising little features that a crude 3rd party manufacturer are likely to be blissfully unaware of. So if you tamper with a couple of signals such a MAP sensor load you may not actually know what else is being frigged about with within the ECU in terms of knock and ignition timing.

 

Something like a Mines ECU, Techtom product isn't too bad as they've usually had to study the ECU, decifer the code and actually know what is really going on.

[Tricky-Ricky]

I think you will find that crude third party manufactures such as Greedy, HKS and Apexi, have invested a fair few billion yen into researching whether their piggyback management products will work correctly without upsetting the delicate balance of the host ECU;) as for chips well a rewritten Rom chip will contain exactly the same information but the fuel and timing maps will have been changed for better performance/economy and any map watch points relating to det etc will also have been tweaked to accommodate the new map,

i will agree that in the case of piggybacks timing advance and fuelling changes may have an effect outside the set load/boost listening areas allocated for det, but its seldom a problem as in reality you should monitor for det via det cans when tuning, and not rely on the factory sensors, with will not always be up to the job anyway as IME they will not not pick up det when the human ear can! they also get confused when the engine has been tuned, cams etc or has quite a few thousand miles on it.

[Steven Cordiner]

Apologies, having re read my post it was not quite clear. My comment was with reference to somewhat generic chips like a superchip and piggy back units that offer rather crude tuning.

 

I agree with you when any of these tuning tools are set up with appropriate equipment by a professional, they are great.

 

However generic controllers that do not fully replace the ECU and which are easy to install have potential risks associated with them when not tuned by a professional - because often they are not! E.g. if you use an SAFC to lean out an MR2, the adverse affect is the car will advance it's ignition timing due to believing it is running less boost. So even if someone believed they were being responsible using a wideband on the road to make fine adjustments, they are unaware of the number of variables affected.

 

[Tricky-Ricky]

ECUs work in two set ways, (well at least most of the ones that we deal with on the older Japanese performance cars) first is closed loop in which the fuelling is set by the lambda feedback, usually 14.7 AFR and only up to a set RPM, after that it will go into open loop, in which it has a pre written map for both fuel and timing, the load part is also a pre calculated formula that is also pre written into the Rom, even though its read by an AFM or MAP sensor, it only lets the ERCU know just where on the pre written map it is.

Timing can be advanced up to a pre set limit governed by the fuel octane the engine was designed to run on say 101 ron in Japan,

so if a lower octane is used the knock sensor will respond and the ECU will retard the timing to a pre set safe limit, but the timing cannot be advanced beyond the limit of the pre written map,

What you are describing by using an SAFC (which is a very coarse adjustment, and i wouldent even class it as a piggyback) to reduce the signal coming from the AFM or MAP sensor to the ECU so the ECU only sees the lowest load v RPM point on the pre written map, it may well generate knock, in which case the timing will be retarded, again on a pe determined map, until knock is no longer detected, which should cause no problem other that bad power, unless the knock sensor is old or faulty! in which case it could result in damage.

Some of the more modern lean burn engines are using self learning ECUs but even these have set maps, just more of them:blink:

[Steven Cordiner]

I think the corvette's have the self learning ones these days .... if only