need quick advice on a possible single-buy

[Homer]

Actually you know what it was dyno'd at thor and for all the related shit the machine produced 395 at the hubs (the 474 they estimated at the fly may have been excessive but you cant argue with the hub figure on a calibrated dyno). That figure was corroborated by sticking it on a seperate rolling road that pushed 375 at the wheels on a considerably warmer day. I also drove the car against other cars with supposed similar power with very good results. Dude before his incarceration was very impressed with its power. So in short there actually is a way that 440's can flow those figures because it did. Suck it up dude not every machine behaves as you expect.

 

The dyno works on toque, so bhp figures are calculated. What was the peak torque & can you supply a graph?

 

Also as its an auto there's also a big question over the accuracy (though as a long term member I am sure you are aware of this )

 

I have actually driven your TT on two occasions before (when it was in mint condition while Roy owned it). To be honest it didn't feel anywhere near as quick as my BPU car, but they may be due to the stock torque converter...

[Clarkey]

I'd also like to point out that the original statement I responded to was If it's only got 440cc injectors it's limited to about 420BHP. which is completely not true. If you wanna be really picky the accepted rule of thumb is a cc for bhp is the limit ie 440cc injectors will support 440 bhp

 

And you've completely missed the point. The rule that you mention might apply to stockers - but this is a single turbo thread

 

Ok - to give you a clue! My Boostlogic T61 with 550 injectors .. at 1.1 Bar of boost pressure the duty cycle is 80%.

 

The duty cycle for stockers with 550's at the same FP - are going to be less. It has to be - because the volume of air being blown into the intake is much greater with single.

[Homer]

I'd also like to point out that the original statement I responded to was If it's only got 440cc injectors it's limited to about 420BHP. which is completely not true. If you wanna be really picky the accepted rule of thumb is a cc for bhp is the limit ie 440cc injectors will support 440 bhp

 

So how can you claim that the calculated figure you provided 475 at the crank? Unless the auto box you had had a magic way of losing friction? It makes no sense!

 

Okay, you had a good BPU car but the figures you (or the RR) claim are ridiculous and deserve ridicule.

[dangerous brain]

The torque figure matched the bhp pretty much. I think it may have been about 5 difference. I will have a looksee and see if I can find the copy of the printout I had. I gave most of the stuff to the new owner. If you did indeed drive the car when Roy owned it you'd know the reason that you couldn't get any performance from it was down to the fact that whoever fitted the boost controller did a wank job hooked the pipes up wrong causing it to boost spike to 1.7 bar every time you put your foot down (so hardly a surprise you couldn't match a normal bpu motor) along with several other fitment issues of the performance parts on that car I had to sort out, so you can actually stuff your mint condition snipe up your fucking arse sunshine.

[RobSheffield]

Hi DB, Hi Darryl, hi Clarkey

[Clarkey]

*waves* to Rob

[Homer]

so you can actually stuff your mint condition snipe up your fucking arse sunshine.

 

I like you, do you like me?

 

Hi Rob!

[Clarkey]

I like you, do you like me?

 

He might have been chatting you up for abit of bumsex.

[dangerous brain]

And you've completely missed the point. The rule that you mention might apply to stockers - but this is a single turbo thread

 

Ok - to give you a clue! My Boostlogic T61 with 550 injectors .. at 1.1 Bar of boost pressure the duty cycle is 80%.

 

The duty cycle for stockers with 550's at the same FP - are going to be less. It has to be - because the volume of air being blown into the intake is much greater with single.

 

I don't think I have missed the point, at which point in the thread did it state that the car is running any figure of power? Chances are it may be running just over stock boost. I'm guessing here that the reason its only had a single bolted on and no other mods is that just bolting on a single is a cheap ish thing to do. Its the supporting mods that make this job expensive.

 

A more helpfull response to the guys question would perhaps be that he should get a full compression test done and if he has access to it a boroscope examination of the cylinder bore (before you go gettin all high an mighty Chris wilson has this kit I beleive and so actually do I)

[Clarkey]

I don't think I have missed the point, at which point in the thread did it state that the car is running any figure of power?

 

Alex commented - if the car was running 440's then the amount of power would be limited. Then you commented with alot of bollox talking about stockers .. when this thread is about a car fitted with a single turbo.

 

So, yes - you did miss the point.

 

~edit~

Even at the same boost - the duty cycle will be HIGHER with a single - because it needs more fuel to compensate for the increased amount of air.

 

From your posts - when you raised the point of duty cycles .. and your stockers achieving the same/greater power as the one Alex commented - implying that something like a BL T61 or a T67 running the exact same boost pressure - is the same for stockers.

 

Well, if that was the case - what would be point installing a single then ?

 

And it's not about getting high and mighty - dear chap. Just that you're typing in the language of bollox.

[dangerous brain]

I like you, do you like me?

 

Hi Rob!

 

Convenient use of selective quoting chap. Did you or didn't you drive Roys car when it was his?

Yup I quoted 474 as its power (tongue in cheek) but you'll find that 395 at the hubs is more than 420 at the fly. How much do you actually know about transmission losses? Auto transmisions lose a lot of power 19% actually isn't that far off the mark (why else do you think they need coolers?) Thors figures put the tranny losses at about 17% which in my book is about right. At 420 brake the tranny losses would only be 6% which is completly unrealistic. And again to quote to you I have actually driven your TT on two occasions before (when it was in mint condition while Roy owned it). To be honest it didn't feel anywhere near as quick as my BPU car, but they may be due to the stock torque converter... If your car was only BPU then you had a serious case of my car is better than yours blindness going on when you drove it.

[Homer]

Edited - DB, my issue is the stupid HP figures you quote. It completely impossible that a jspec on 440cc injectors can flow enough fuel to provide that power.

 

Stop quoting stupid figures and there's no issue. End of!

[Clarkey]

Its a waste of time Clarkey, DB clearly has little clue; he's yet another victim that reads their dyno sheet and immediately believes what they see...

 

for sure Daryl ...

[dangerous brain]

Alex commented - if the car was running 440's then the amount of power would be limited. Then you commented with alot of bollox.

 

So, yes - you did miss the point.

 

~edit~

Even at the same boost - the duty cycle will be HIGHER with a single - because it needs more fuel to compensate for the increased amount of air.

 

From your posts - when you raised the point of duty cycles .. and your stockers achieving the same/greater power as the one Alex commented - implying that something like a BL T61 or a T67 running the exact same boost pressure - is the same for stockers.

 

Well, if that was the case - what would be point installing a single then ?

 

And it's not about getting high and mighty - dear chap. Just that you're typing in the language of bollox.

 

 

 

My god do i really need to quote myself??? Ok I will just for you

Says who???????

 

Mine was running 440's and had 395 at the hubs so to say a car can only run 420 brake on 440's is complete bollox chap. The injectors will of course be running pretty much 100% cycle at max chat which I accept isn't the best situation in the world but is possible.

 

That was in response to this

 

If it's only got 440cc injectors it's limited to about 420BHP.

 

 

Did I at any point mention anything about singles airflow or power output? No I didn't. Its you that came over all single

 

And you've completely missed the point. The rule that you mention might apply to stockers - but this is a single turbo thread

 

Ok - to give you a clue! My Boostlogic T61 with 550 injectors .. at 1.1 Bar of boost pressure the duty cycle is 80%.

 

The duty cycle for stockers with 550's at the same FP - are going to be less. It has to be - because the volume of air being blown into the intake is much greater with single.

 

You'll find the original thread was this

 

Hi guys

 

I really need som quick advices here

 

Been looking af this baby: http://www.traderamotor.com/showObject.aspx__id~374585__hl~toyota_mkiv_singelturbo

It has a GT42 singleturbo conversion but no BC or ECU installed. Is that drivable at all?

What will I get if I just install a BC, is that possible or du I have to get a new ECU (AEM or HKS ect)

 

So No boost controller or any other device for controlling the boost so in theory it could be running stock boost, even on a single thats not gonna be producing much beyond 420 brake.

 

If anyone has jumped on the bandwagon and started bleating bollox I'm not lookin in my corner for sure. I've not stated anything thats untrue.

 

If you don't like the dyno figures that I was given thats your perrogative. I had them from more than one place and to be fair Pete himself was shocked when he did my car and I told him it wasn't hybrided (2 of which followed and were lower powered)

[Clarkey]

Did I at any point mention anything about singles airflow or power output? No I didn't. Its you that came over all single

 

Because this thread is about a single car! Ok. Alex quoted that figure because - on a "single" (we're talking singles here) effects duty-cycle - that's why he raised the point on 440's.

 

Ok so far ?

 

If it was 440's - then the power is limited because the duty-cycle and airflow being greater with the single.

 

Then you came along and said the figure that Alex quoted was incorrect. You didn't consider WHY Alex quoted that figure in the first place.

[csa]

Dont forget something to control the stuff. So throw in a extra 3000€ for AEM and mapping.

 

But still a car like that just calls for troubles. If somebody does this much mods its just behind my mind why he goes cheap on fuel and ecu. As those two points are the most vital parts for reliability.

 

I know an AEM would be the correct way to go, but for starters, wouldn't I be alble to run the car safe with uprated fuelsystem and a BC..at say 1 bar ?

[RobSheffield]

Have you all put your clocks back?

 

[/Vainly attempting to diffuse situation with random chat]

[dangerous brain]

Yes I did consider it and still I stand by and say that 420 brake+ is achievable on 440 cc injectors. It really doesn't matter a toss if its a single turbo, twin turbo's or no feckin turbo's. 440 cc injectors flow the same amount of fuel regardless of induction type. Or are you now trying to be clever and say otherwise??

Alex your busom buddy made a carte blanche statement which is totally untrue, dress it up how you like with your suppositions but its an untrue statement.

I would say that the power on the car is currently limited at the moment due to the fact that the fuel and boost control has been left stock. Now in this instant that is a good thing especially if you are looking at buying the car. It means there is a higher chance that the boost has been running low (hopefully around the 0.8-0.9 bar marker) and as such the chance that the car is retreivable is higher.

 

Truth will be in the pudding. Get the car compression tested, if that comes up trumps and the plugs aren't white as a sheet then consider bunging a boroscope down it and having a look for more evidence of running lean.

 

If you have something a bit more constructive to say then please feel free to add it otherwise shut the fuck up wind up merchant

[csa]

(hopefully around the 0.8-0.9 bar marker) and as such the chance that the car is retreivable is higher.

 

the car has been runing 0.7 with the current setup

[Clarkey]

It really doesn't matter a toss if its a single turbo, twin turbo's or no feckin turbo's. 440 cc injectors flow the same amount of fuel regardless of induction type. Or are you now trying to be clever and say otherwise??

 

Nope I'm not talking about flow rate .. and you know damn well I'm not. I'm talking about the amount of volume of AIR going through the intake in a single is GREATER than stockers. Thereby, you need more fuel - BIGGER INJECTORS or RAISED FUEL PRESSURE - to give you more duty cycle to play with.

 

I've got no interest in the power figures of your old BPU car - because as far as I'm concerned - that is NOT on topic and is irrelevent to this thread about SINGLE car.

 

Right whatever mate. I can see it's pointless with you. And I truely can't be arsed - with you or your insults. Stick with your NA mate - it's like chips without salt and vinegar.

 

One thing I will ask is - why do you think people with singles fit bigger injectors ?

 

If what you say is true - then people could run 1.4 bar on their 440's with a BL T61 without their engine going bang.

[Clarkey]

the car has been runing 0.7 with the current setup

 

If it's on 440's - it'll be running bloody lean .. or he's raised the fuel pressure to give the injectors more duty.

 

Affennel ex-T61 car was on 440's - and had a 0.8 Wastegate spring fitted ... he needed an Aeromotive FPR and cranked his FP up.

 

Erm, can anyone think of a reason why ??

[csa]

could someone please explain the expression "lean" ? what's the implications on the engine when "running bloody lean"?

[Jurgen-Jm-Imports]

could someone please explain the expression "lean" ? what's the implications on the engine when "running bloody lean"?

 

lean means your car is not getting enough fuel at a certain point on the rev range best thing is get a dyno figure and see the afr on car and get it mapped to see what boost it can run with out running lean, my guess its going to be 1.2-1.4 bar max.

[Clarkey]

Melted piston. Detonation. More air in the mixture than fuel.

 

Because the size of that turbo - is pushing more air into the intake - the assumed 440's are supplying insufficient fuel.

[dangerous brain]

Christ you really aren't reading here are you???

 

People fit bigger injectors when they fit singles because singles can reliably flow 1.4 bar without blowing up. YUP fuck me I agree with that as that is truth. If you actually read what I have said you'll see that I haven't said that this particular car is running 1.4 bar. Stop being a fuckwit here. Stop ignoring the technical stuff I have posted and stop twisting this into a I know more than you bun fight.

Yup I've now got an NA (which I actually don't want so I got a mk3)

 

the car has been runing 0.7 with the current setup

 

I wouldn't be too sure about that though chap as looking at the spec in the ad its saying that theres a blitz nurspec, and 3 " cat replacement pipe on there. Without any other boost control and assuming its J-spec it won't hold at 0.7 bar. Maybe its got a restrictor fitted in the exhaust to prevent boost coming up but again I will suggest before you do anything witness a compression test and look at the plugs when they come out.