DamanC Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 Paul - Im presuming your supplier of FMIC kits used to sell them on Ebay? I saw exactly the same photo the other day, just witht he writing of the company written diagonally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamanC Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 PS greddy 2 rows even cheaper! http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8071084327&fromMakeTrack=true Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suprash Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 Never had a prob with the 2 x PWR fitting I have done BTW - i have a neelsons rad etc here if you are interested? This problem of heat seems strange - seems to effect one car and not another... However - why take the chance and spend all that extra money? Neelsons rad ?????? Can a 2 row be used ok with a small single ? Sorry sure someone asked this already.......? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suprash Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 Also looking at PWR's site, they do water to air cooling, what are people thoughts on this, would this cool better then air to air.. http://www.pwr.com.au/pwr/index.asp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonball Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 Paul - Im presuming your supplier of FMIC kits used to sell them on Ebay? I saw exactly the same photo the other day, just witht he writing of the company written diagonally. No - I was going to stock the hybrid ones - but these are not from the same people (but tbh all from same place I expect) The 'uprated' SMIC's I do are UK made Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imi Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 but as soon as flow path and flow capacity and pressure drop and overall charge cooling ability come into the equation it's a different case. -Ian Thats a good point. Guess the only way to find out would be to measure this, what exactly would one measure though? temperature / if so where? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyh Posted June 28, 2006 Author Share Posted June 28, 2006 PS greddy 2 rows even cheaper! http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8071084327&fromMakeTrack=true bloody hell that is cheap i dont think nic can even get them that cheap but how do you stand if the goods dont turn up are you covered if its payed by pay pal:blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonball Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 Thats a good point. Guess the only way to find out would be to measure this, what exactly would one measure though? temperature / if so where? Its moot point If something performs better under std / dyno conditions - why would it perform worse than a knackered stock one when hot etc? The knackered stock one would probably degenerate even faster...! And thats whats importent here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 I think what's important is whatever you replace knackered stock IC with, you should make sure it doesn't have an excessive pressure drop across the core, doesnt suffer easily from heat soak, and keeps you charge temps acceptably cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonball Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 And improve your HP figures too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suprash Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 it doesn't have an excessive pressure drop across the core How would you know this Tel...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 And improve your HP figures too... I would certainly consider constantly cooler charge temps more important than a few extra bhp on a 5 second dyno pull. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamanC Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 bloody hell that is cheap i dont think nic can even get them that cheap but how do you stand if the goods dont turn up are you covered if its payed by pay pal:blink: According to the seller, its covered by insurance (inc in the £95 delivery cost) But......theres always a but, if there any problems the buyer has to incur the carrage costs which tbh isnt right. However if it is cocked up in transit the delivery company "should" also cover these new costs therefore the buyer doesnt loose out. Looking at his feedback he seems fine. Im going to drop him an email to see if i can get a discount to get a few over here for a group buy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 How would you know this Tel...? measure/record the before/after the IC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suprash Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 measure/record the before/after the IC. Ok, how would you measure/record the before and after the IC ??? Sorry maybe its me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonball Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 I would certainly consider constantly cooler charge temps more important than a few extra bhp on a 5 second dyno pull. But surely an increase of over 25HP (hardly a 'few extra' is it?) will mean that this is being achieved? Also if this is an improvement over the knackered IC on full dyno pulls (hardly a small measurement either) then it must be even better when the engine under load? Or am I missing something here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 Or am I missing something here Yes, to make any real world comparisions there needs to be a series of back to back dyno runs to have any real meaning. You could find the IC heat soaks after 3 pulls, which would make it useless for the road/track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 HP increases are a by product of the things Terry has mentioned. But being further form DET and making even the same power more safely is way more important than gaining power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyb10supra Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 According to the seller, its covered by insurance (inc in the £95 delivery cost) But......theres always a but, if there any problems the buyer has to incur the carrage costs which tbh isnt right. However if it is cocked up in transit the delivery company "should" also cover these new costs therefore the buyer doesnt loose out. Looking at his feedback he seems fine. Im going to drop him an email to see if i can get a discount to get a few over here for a group buy. Great timing just after I orderd mine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 Ok, how would you measure/record the before and after the IC ??? Sorry maybe its me... measure the pressure before/after the IC. Just a brief explanation, If you have one of these IC's ( all hypothetical numbers ) on stock twins you may see say 18 psi of boost at the intake plenum, but the pressure drop across the IC maybe 4psi so the turbo outlet side will be 22psi. Now say you decide to put a T71 on the car which has vastly more airflow than a set of stock twins , because you are forcing more air through the IC, the pressure drop will increase, so to get your 18 psi of boost at the intake plenum, you may have a pressure drop of say 8 psi across the IC so the turbo outlet side is boosting to 26psi. The down side to this is that the extra pressure on the turbo outlet side equates to more heat, which is approximately and additional 30 degrees f for the 4 psi extra needed to overcome the cores pressure drop. Hopefully from that you can see the importance on minimising the IC core pressure drop, and correct IC selection/sizing. sorry if it doesnt make sense in a bit of a rush. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suprash Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 measure the pressure before/after the IC. Just a brief explanation, If you have one of these IC's ( all hypothetical numbers ) on stock twins you may see say 18 psi of boost at the intake plenum, but the pressure drop across the IC maybe 4psi so the turbo outlet side will be 22psi. Now say you decide to put a T71 on the car which has vastly more airflow than a set of stock twins , because you are forcing more air through the IC, the pressure drop will increase, so to get your 18 psi of boost at the intake plenum, you may have a pressure drop of say 8 psi across the IC so the turbo outlet side is boosting to 26psi. The down side to this is that the extra pressure on the turbo outlet side equates to more heat, which is approximately and additional 30 degrees f for the 4 psi extra needed to overcome the cores pressure drop. Hopefully from that you can see the importance on minimising the IC core pressure drop, and correct IC selection/sizing. sorry if it doesnt make sense in a bit of a rush. Mate, that makes perfect sense......... I learnt something new today........... So whats your honest/professional opinion on my Hybrid 2 row ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonball Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 So basically we have The HP increases as a result of cooler charge temperatures over the knackered stock intercooler Ideally three or four runs are required to check on heat soak (but in any event this is unlikely to be worse than a knackered FMIC) Pressure drop with stock turbos is unlikely to be a problem - and that if you were putting on a very large turbo the intercooler needs to be more effecient Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 So basically we have The HP increases as a result of cooler charge temperatures over the knackered stock intercooler Ideally three or four runs are required to check on heat soak (but in any event this is unlikely to be worse than a knackered FMIC) Pressure drop with stock turbos is unlikely to be a problem - and that if you were putting on a very large turbo the intercooler needs to be more effecient Paul, just trying to keep this technical rather than turn it into another sales thread. Cooler charge temps will result in more power. Maybe a dearer IC will reveal more power? At least 3-4 ( preferably more) back to back runs to establish the level of heat soak. The whole thing of comparing to a knackered stock IC is a bit of a red herring as they will be "knackered" to various degrees. You cant say pressure drops on a stock twin car are unlikely to be a problem until you test the cores. What this really need is imperical testing, with a selection of popular IC's done, but I fear that will never happen ( maybe the club could purchase, test then resell the IC's) in a controlled manor. Now whilst there are some very good VFM cores available, without any test data available, they may or may not be the bargain they intially appear to be. I can only speak from my own personal experience and testing. The HKS R type is excellent, as is the Blitz LM. I have seen intake temp datalogs on a GReddy 3 Row which again showed very good charge temps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 Mate, that makes perfect sense......... I learnt something new today........... So whats your honest/professional opinion on my Hybrid 2 row ? Mate I couldnt say, I know the tank design has been questioned, but without any real testing who knows. I *think* it was a Hybrid one that was discussed on an Aussie forum and said to have excessive pressure drops but not 100% on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suprash Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 Mate I couldnt say, I know the tank design has been questioned, but without any real testing who knows. I *think* it was a Hybrid one that was discussed on an Aussie forum and said to have excessive pressure drops but not 100% on that. And I heard that they raved about them over on the US site, for the money that are...........I aint buying another IC, 3rd one in 2 years........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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