Jake Posted September 4, 2005 Share Posted September 4, 2005 In the real world, once you start running high boost the ceramic turbines tend to detach themselves from the shafts and fly off the exhaust. How cool is that? Where does this information come from? I keep seeing posts where you are saying the ceramic turbos are less reliable than the steel ones. In the time I've been on this forum I haven't noticed more j-spec turbos failing than UK ones. It seems that Chris Wilson also disagrees with you : Originally Posted by Chris Wilson Steel internals have a lot more lag, and when overboosting they seem to fail earlier, no doubt due to slight imbalance on the heavier wheels having a more profound effect on bearing and thus seal life. I think Chris has slightly more experience of these things than any of us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted September 4, 2005 Share Posted September 4, 2005 Where does this information come from? I keep seeing posts where you are saying the ceramic turbos are less reliable than the steel ones. . The way ceramic turbines are 'fastened' to the steel shafts is prone to this phenomenon. As Chris said, steel ones fail due to different reasons. Note that both fail while at speeds well in excess of those of the normal operating range. (Also remember that boost is not the absolute measure of shaft rpm, it's only the value of static pressure --- not even total!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickyboy Posted September 4, 2005 Share Posted September 4, 2005 I've had both a UK-spec and a Jap-spec and have enjoyed them both. I think the best advice I could give you is to look for the car you want (age/colour/mileage/price etc) and not worry if it's a UK or a Jap. The UK-spec was the only one I could get insured on initially so that could be a factor... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted September 4, 2005 Share Posted September 4, 2005 A few years ago, when I drove UK and JSpecs back to back at the JIC I didn't feel any dramatic differences, neither with the VVTi. I know that I should, but I didn't. So it is really down to personal taste, spec levels, age and perhaps insurance. Neither spec is really happy to be boosted over 1bar, diminishing returns hit hard. If you want crazy power they are both inappropriate IMO. I am currently experimenting to see how far the stock UK turbos can be pushed. I doubt that they can exceed 50% the stock power levels, it's still nowhere near 'nutter' power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbeh Posted September 4, 2005 Share Posted September 4, 2005 It seems that Chris Wilson also disagrees with you : I think Chris has slightly more experience of these things than any of us. Jake, all you have to do is look at the technical forum to see all the jdm turbo failures, thats your reality check. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellis Posted September 4, 2005 Author Share Posted September 4, 2005 A few years ago, when I drove UK and JSpecs back to back at the JIC I didn't feel any dramatic differences, neither with the VVTi. I know that I should, but I didn't. So it is really down to personal taste, spec levels, age and perhaps insurance. Neither spec is really happy to be boosted over 1bar, diminishing returns hit hard. If you want crazy power they are both inappropriate IMO. I am currently experimenting to see how far the stock UK turbos can be pushed. I doubt that they can exceed 50% the stock power levels, it's still nowhere near 'nutter' power. Don't want nutter - just want a good clean unmolested original car! Nothing could be simpler . . . . . or could it! I have 2 possibles at the moment - one J-Spec and one UK. Insurance not really an issue, am an old fart now so thats OK! Just want a really good example that I can keep for a few years and fettle (maybe) over time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chilli Posted September 4, 2005 Share Posted September 4, 2005 I wonder how many of these have been caused by people running too much boost though (over 1.2bar), caused by not enough restriction in the exhaust of the j-spec leading to overboost or boost creep. Car probably feels really quick until the turbos go pop! Although the uk-spec may be slightly stronger, from what I gather, neither type of stock turbos work well above 1.2bar (they become rather inefficient, efficiency falling off a cliff so to speak). 1.2 bar seems to be a reasonably safe upper limit for j-spec turbos anyway. So if you stick at or below this then with the j-spec you get tangibly less lag. You might squeeze a tad more boost out of the uk spec, but what this does for the engine (all that lovely hot air) is unlikely to be anything good! So at 1.2, the uk spec may prove to be more reliable - but hey when they go it's a good excuse to go single right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbeh Posted September 4, 2005 Share Posted September 4, 2005 Like I said before m8, it wont matter which version you get then. You just have to note down what things interest you, what spec you like, what you like visually (eg if you like the bonnet scoop for example, or if you dont like the washers etc). You will not be dissapointed with either model. Insurance wise, even though you are 'older' some companies will still try to charge you a bit more a JDM car, you will need to shop about Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbeh Posted September 4, 2005 Share Posted September 4, 2005 So at 1.2, the uk spec may prove to be more reliable - but hey when they go it's a good excuse to go single right Who wants single, monkeymarks twins are still quicker than most of these new singles BTW, I reitterate, go look at Supraforums and see the times and figures they generate for UK/US spec turbos, or ask their members if they'd like the Ceramic alternatives and 440cc injectors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellis Posted September 4, 2005 Author Share Posted September 4, 2005 Like I said before m8, it wont matter which version you get then. You just have to note down what things interest you, what spec you like, what you like visually (eg if you like the bonnet scoop for example, or if you dont like the washers etc). You will not be dissapointed with either model. Insurance wise, even though you are 'older' some companies will still try to charge you a bit more a JDM car, you will need to shop about Confused.com gives good comparison quotes but as soon as you tick that modifications box red lights must go off in every bloody insurance office around! They all sit there rubbing their hands and cackling like witches! Thats why I'd like original - plus it means I've got a blank canvas to work with if the mood takes. Anybody got anything in mind??!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chilli Posted September 4, 2005 Share Posted September 4, 2005 One of the members on here has circa 475bhp from stock j-spec turbos and 440 injectors, much beyond this I really think you want a single, not something marginal like the uk spec turbos! Fair point, but the americans do like the "brute force" approach at the best of times lol, most of them are into drag times, subtleties like less lag and responsiveness might well get lost along the way... Anyway, to avoid thread hijack back to the case in point, ellis - you can find excellent examples of either type of car. Bits are readily available to allow you to tailor either car to exactly what you want. From what you are saying, it sounds like the "j-spec or uk spec" question is almost a non-issue for you. What you need to do is get looking, you will know when you find the "right" car for you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellis Posted September 4, 2005 Author Share Posted September 4, 2005 Don't mind it being hijacked - I asked for opinions and thats what I'm getting - before I go looking I just wanted members' thoughts. Best to be aware before parting with me moolah!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarkey Posted September 4, 2005 Share Posted September 4, 2005 Jake, all you have to do is look at the technical forum to see all the jdm turbo failures, thats your reality check. There's more JDM Supra on this board than UK anyway. There was a poll awhile back - a very small amount UK owners. So, you'd expect more JDM turbo posts wouldn't you ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chilli Posted September 4, 2005 Share Posted September 4, 2005 Good luck with your search, out of all the differences, those UK spec brakes are probably the thing worth worrying about, but do remember that they can be bought new for around £500. Please do let us know how you get on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellis Posted September 4, 2005 Author Share Posted September 4, 2005 Will do - the two cars I'm looking at initially are for sale on here anyway so that should be a good start! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerous brain Posted September 4, 2005 Share Posted September 4, 2005 One thing to consider is resale. At the moment J-spec prices are free-falling. Trying to convince people that a good example is worth paying the extra for when a cheap crap shoddy import is available is very hard work. Even the aerotop the bastion of supe values is taking a pounding. The one car that seems to be holding right now is the UK 6 speed manual with low miles. If you are going to keep and heavily Modify a car get a J-spec if however you only intend on a year or twos ownership buy the UK car as it'll prove the better investment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted September 4, 2005 Share Posted September 4, 2005 ...The one car that seems to be holding right now is the UK 6 speed manual with low miles. If you are going to keep and heavily Modify a car get a J-spec if however you only intend on a year or twos ownership buy the UK car as it'll prove the better investment. That's a fair statement I think. Sums it up nicely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zap Posted September 4, 2005 Share Posted September 4, 2005 im a uk fan myself............ the turbos may be steel, but this is a bonus as far as im concerned, there bigger turb's (i think) an there alot more durable (stronger). you have a far better chance of getting a genuine car with genuine mileage an serv. hist (of coarse which is essential on these cars) then the other small thing............... in my case and im sure in many others, uk spec insurance is alomost half the porice of j-spec unless you get top model j-spec, you wont get, heated seats, active bonnet vent, active front spoiler, 326bhp as standard oh and the big brakes Of coarse each to there own though..... this is just my opinion So just how much is this half price UK insurance everyone keeps going on about? We are currently paying £650.00 approx, that would make ours £325.00 fully comp!!! mmmmmmmmmm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerous brain Posted September 4, 2005 Share Posted September 4, 2005 So just how much is this half price UK insurance everyone keeps going on about? We are currently paying £650.00 approx, that would make ours £325.00 fully comp!!! mmmmmmmmmm I know I think this is a myth of old or something that insurance companies keep for sprogs lol. That said assured valuation and 474BHP declared only costs me £680 with sky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zap Posted September 4, 2005 Share Posted September 4, 2005 Yeah - that is exactly what we were thinking!!! ROFL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MONKEYmark Posted September 4, 2005 Share Posted September 4, 2005 Who wants single, monkeymarks twins are still quicker than most of these new singles BTW, I reitterate, go look at Supraforums and see the times and figures they generate for UK/US spec turbos, or ask their members if they'd like the Ceramic alternatives and 440cc injectors.thanks bobbeh it is good to see how far the weak jap turbos with small 440cc injectors can do. i would imagine they will let go one time.but a single kit and fuel fit waiting to go on. i am a bit dissapointed with singles,seem a lot of hasstle for not much better times. michell in is uk tt did a 12.8 on stock uk twins with a t78 & aem he just done a 12.7 spinning and getting no grip off line. think i would be happy keeping jap stock turbos if they could take 1.4 bar boost. my best time was done on 1 bar boost.got no boost controller and checked the limit the hks electronic boost had hit. i have had up to 1.5 bar on stock jap spec turbos and stock pump but was pushing luck. i bought first supra i drove just happend to be a jap facelift car. never knew there were differences in uk and jap. uk has all the luxurys. even has lsd as standard and leather. the uk spec has all the toys and will be a lot heavier too.supras are a heavy car and you need lots of power to get them launching well.once they up and running they go great.i have only been in my mates uk spec seemd quick to me. i love reading all these types of posts as they get a bit heated lol all good banter. they all can scare you when they are going fast be it uk or jap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbeh Posted September 4, 2005 Share Posted September 4, 2005 I know I think this is a myth of old or something that insurance companies keep for sprogs lol. That said assured valuation and 474BHP declared only costs me £680 with sky Yes, times have changed thanks to companies like Sky who specialise in imports, when I called them they didnt even recognise the UK model as existing! But historically its not been the case sadly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerous brain Posted September 4, 2005 Share Posted September 4, 2005 One of the members on here has circa 475bhp from stock j-spec turbos and 440 injectors, much beyond this I really think you want a single, not something marginal like the uk spec turbos! You'll find thats me Apparently SimonB has 430BHP at the hubs on stock tubbies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted September 5, 2005 Share Posted September 5, 2005 ... i love reading all these types of posts as they get a bit heated lol all good banter... Aye, I don't think anyone takes them too seriously. If I had gone for a late VVTi, you'd be seeing me slagging the UKSpecs like there's no tomorrow It's all tongue and cheek, hey it's only the internet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbeh Posted September 5, 2005 Share Posted September 5, 2005 If I had gone for a late VVTi, you'd be seeing me slagging the UKSpecs like there's no tomorrow Why? There is no noticable difference at all when modifying the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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