Chiefgroover Posted April 7, 2005 Share Posted April 7, 2005 CJ, anyone can riddicule anything..............sour grapes. Nathan accepted them after a couple of posts, so whats your problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiefgroover Posted April 7, 2005 Share Posted April 7, 2005 riddicule......like you are doing here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJ Posted April 7, 2005 Share Posted April 7, 2005 The problem here is the concept of dyno's and their use. Why do people use dyno's and what, in my opinion, they should be used for. A dyno should be used as a means of giving a safe environment to tune a car. If the punter uses it as a means to get a BHP figure then the dyno station feels almost obliged to tell him/her what he wants to hear. Think of this scenario. You take your car to dyno A and they give you a figure of 500BHP. You then take it to B who say 440BHP. Which do you quote? Not only that, I can almost guarantee that you wll not reccomend dyno B to your friends or colleagues. And yet your car is no quicker regardless of the quoted figures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Posted April 7, 2005 Share Posted April 7, 2005 actually CJ, not only did i dyno then, but twice after managed two much bigger figures, even won a dyno shoot out. Difference was I had a 10,000 miles engine that was crisp with "other mods" Car went to other dyno's and gave the same (within 5%) figures. I have since met 7 owners who also did my sort of figures, but are afriad to talk about then in a forum because of the usual "heckler crowd". I was no fluke, it just a pity there are so many opinionated people who dont need a rolling road to give exact power figures. Perhaps I'm missing some history here, but what sort ower Rwhp did see and and what mods do you have (Stock, hybrids, med/big single, etc)? If you've run on a few different types of RR then I'd like to hear what figures you saw. Do you have any of the graphs available to post up? I've not seen many posted up so would like to compare rwhp, a/f, boost, etc. so I can compare to my own figures! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiefgroover Posted April 7, 2005 Share Posted April 7, 2005 CJ actually they didnt, it was accepted when they learnt a little more about the car. your memory served you poorly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJ Posted April 7, 2005 Share Posted April 7, 2005 Nathan accepted them after a couple of posts, so whats your problem? Yeah right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael Posted April 7, 2005 Share Posted April 7, 2005 In fairness to CJ he's simply pointing out that dyno figures vary wildly from one place to the next depending on a number of factors, it's not until you get a batch of cars at the same place at the same time that you can compare things, even variations in tyre pressure car have an effect on regular dynos. Take a couple of runs I had in the dim and distant past as examples: 13th September 2003 - John Noble Motorsport: http://www.megaboost.co.uk/supra/mine/dyno/john-noble-1.jpg 341bhp and 308lbft 5th October 2003, newly installed and calibrated dyno at Top Gear: http://www.megaboost.co.uk/supra/mine/dyno/topgear-dyno.jpg 419.5bhp and 352lbft Jan 2004 - Well Lane Turbos: http://www.megaboost.co.uk/supra/mine/dyno/welllane-dyno.jpg 379bhp and ~320lbft All of the above were done with the car in the same state of tune.... food for thought? These days I don't pay much attention to individual dyno results for these reasons, I use my own figures and get another run each time I change something, generally using Thor and Nobles: http://www.megaboost.co.uk/supra/mine/dyno/ It's a black art that relies on too many variables to offer a true comparison from dyno to dyno and it's good for business to send people away with results that make them happy... still it's a good way to compare mods if you use the same setup each time, just don't rely on the figures too much or only compare results with others who have used the same rollers as you. A mate of mine has put a fairly interesting read together for anyone wanting to fill in some blanks: http://www.madcat.co.uk/guide-dynoday.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiefgroover Posted April 7, 2005 Share Posted April 7, 2005 sometimes have a few people sat in boot to get weight over wheels. excatly, this has to be one of the biggest problems with Supra's on a dyno, and often the reason for the varying power figures. A Supra needs three very heavy guys sitting on the back of the car IMO. Homer, I;d be typing in here forever if i went down that road on this one. Sorry mate but wont be oblidging, cant be bothered with the flack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Posted April 7, 2005 Share Posted April 7, 2005 Homer, I;d be typing in here forever if i went down that road on this one. Sorry mate but wont be oblidging, cant be bothered with the flack. Fair enough i suppose. Michael, good to see you have some examples of what I'm expecting to see! I'll be posting up my results after a few dyno runs around the south/midlands in the next few months to see how the various places compare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiefgroover Posted April 7, 2005 Share Posted April 7, 2005 Next week I use what is in many peoples opinon the best (not mine, i currently dont have one) being an almost brand new DYNAPACK. Surely it has to have some credibility with its hub measuring? if not what do you people consider to be the best brand of rolling road. I have heard it said (I am merely passing on s/h info here) that ALL dynapacks give the exact same reading? is this true? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael Posted April 7, 2005 Share Posted April 7, 2005 A Supra needs three very heavy guys sitting on the back of the car IMO. But we don't have 3 heavy guys in the back on the road so again this is another way of fudging the results in order to get a figure from the software. Been there, done that http://www.madcat.co.uk/gallery/noblerrday/DSCF0121.JPG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael Posted April 7, 2005 Share Posted April 7, 2005 Next week I use what is in many peoples opinon the best (not mine, i currently dont have one) being an almost brand new DYNAPACK. Surely it has to have some credibility with its hub measuring? if not what do you people consider to be the best brand of rolling road. I have heard it said (I am merely passing on s/h info here) that ALL dynapacks give the exact same reading? is this true? You still have variables such as temps, airflow etc to take into account but by removing the tyre / wheel aspect from the calculation results should be a lot better for comparison purposes. At the end of the day only an engine dyno is going to give a truly accurate result (and even then you'll still have people doubt it ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiefgroover Posted April 7, 2005 Share Posted April 7, 2005 But we don't have 3 heavy guys in the back on the road so again this is another way of fudging the results in order to get a figure from the software. I should hope not, they would only yap about the fumes and draft lmao. I dont see how the 3 guys (or gals for that matter lol) could give a hype reading, when all they do is elimate some wheelspin, which on dry tarmac you would'nt have anyway unless your running massive power or shyte tyres. Takes us back to the hub measuring technique, after all we are testing engine power and not the traction loss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiefgroover Posted April 7, 2005 Share Posted April 7, 2005 At the end of the day only an engine dyno is going to give a truly accurate result (and even then you'll still have people doubt it ). Thank you for your informed info McCanny. My point exactly, so as we know things can vary, why should some members jump on anyone who gets a slightly higher figure? still seems a bit wee boys in car car club sort of thing. We all pay our membership so there is no point in certain members playing Lord of the manor on dyno runs CJ is there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerotop Dave Posted April 8, 2005 Share Posted April 8, 2005 Paul, just ignore the doubters here, just cause their heap didnt dyno well doesnt mean yours cant. I'll be dyno'd on a dynopack next week and you can be sure that after that dynopacks will be rubbish and my figure will be doubted. Maybe some people need to accept their engine is a crock and their are better ones out there with more compression. Its the old car club chip on the shoulder crap, "mine didnt do that well so yours couldn't". How ****** sad. well wishers galore........"dont you enjoy your car anymore than me" etc Well done Paul, i hope you are well proud of your motor. Health to enjoy :-) Generally speaking I don't bother with the arguments on here (it's just the internet ffs, who gives a sh*t?) but the first page (before your post) is generally people saying 'Wow, that seems quite high with those mods'. I don't think anyone actually said 'That's crap'. No one was slagging off Paul's car, there was just a question mark around the figure. Let's be honest here, that IS a high figure for a BPU car, no getting away from it. Oh, and if you're referring to CJ's post specifically (although you said 'doubters' - plural) then his post was too cryptic for me to understand anyway (sorry CJ! ) Thanks for calling my car a 'heap' btw and my engine a 'crock'. That must be that 'old car club chip on the shoulder crap' approach you referred to... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJ Posted April 8, 2005 Share Posted April 8, 2005 Thank you for your informed info McCanny. My point exactly, so as we know things can vary, why should some members jump on anyone who gets a slightly higher figure? still seems a bit wee boys in car car club sort of thing. We all pay our membership so there is no point in certain members playing Lord of the manor on dyno runs CJ is there? Ah but it wasnt just me was it? If you look at the thread again you will see that there were several people questioning the validity of the figures provided. In fact, up until your pathetic, childish post accusing people of : Paul, just ignore the doubters here, just cause their heap didnt dyno well doesnt mean yours cant. I'll be dyno'd on a dynopack next week and you can be sure that after that dynopacks will be rubbish and my figure will be doubted. Maybe some people need to accept their engine is a crock and their are better ones out there with more compression. Its the old car club chip on the shoulder crap, "mine didnt do that well so yours couldn't". How ****** sad. well wishers galore........"dont you enjoy your car anymore than me" etc Well done Paul, i hope you are well proud of your motor. Health to enjoy :-) I had not ventured a derogatory comment at all, except to point out that the dyno owners could be an unscrupulous bunch. I suggest that before you post again accusing me of a "Lord of the Manor" attitude you actually read the previous posts and then decide whether the person who actually stirred up the hornets nest was me or you. At the end of the day Chief, there is no way I, nor any of the other sensible members on this forum, will allow individuals to accuse us of having crock engines or or having a chip on our shoulders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJ Posted April 8, 2005 Share Posted April 8, 2005 Damn! Now Dave and I will be accused of collaboration too eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerotop Dave Posted April 8, 2005 Share Posted April 8, 2005 hehe As I said, I just don't bother with the arguments on here anymore, but this rattled my cage a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarkey Posted April 8, 2005 Share Posted April 8, 2005 Paul, just ignore the doubters here, just cause their heap didnt dyno well doesnt mean yours cant. I'll be dyno'd on a dynopack next week and you can be sure that after that dynopacks will be rubbish and my figure will be doubted. Maybe some people need to accept their engine is a crock and their are better ones out there with more compression. Well done Paul, i hope you are well proud of your motor. Health to enjoy :-) Wind your neck in mate! Nobody here has a car club chip on their shoulders .. as you so put it. Nobody has posted any nasty remarks to regards to Paul's car. Paul is planning on taking his car to at least 3 seperate dyno stations to compare the dyno readings. If indeed, that figure is accurate - then I take my hat off to him ... not get the hump and get pissy because he may have a more powerful than me. I don't think there is a single member on this board that would throw a hissy fit - because Its the old car club chip on the shoulder crap, "mine didnt do that well so yours couldn't". How ****** sad. well wishers galore........"dont you enjoy your car anymore than me" etc [/Quote] If that's the case - then we'd all be pissed off that Dude can run 9 - 10secs 1/4 .. whereas a BPU supe may run 11-12. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbourner Posted April 8, 2005 Share Posted April 8, 2005 People have said my figures were crap as well, 363 rear wheel hub power from Thor. People were saying Thor always give high figures etc. It's a hub dyno so the figures are going to be higher than wheel dynos anyway, regardless of whether someone's in the boot or not!!! Yet I got higher figures than other people with similar states of tune on the same day in the same situation. Just shows that some cars give higher figures than others. I'm with the Chief on this one, not the argument just the fact that Pauls figures are perfectly believable and people shouldn't be saying anything against that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarkey Posted April 8, 2005 Share Posted April 8, 2005 Pauls figures are perfectly believable and people shouldn't be saying anything against that! But people aren't putting Paul down mate. CJ is saying that dyno-stations used for giving someone a power-figure can over-exaggerate the figure to keep the punter happy because it's good for business. I suggested getting the car re-dynoed at seperate places to compare the dyno results - which Paul had planned to do anyway to get an accurate figure. Nobody is slamming Paul's figures - what is being questioned is the reliability of the dyno stations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiefgroover Posted April 8, 2005 Share Posted April 8, 2005 At the end of the day Chief, there is no way I, nor any of the other sensible members on this forum, will allow individuals to accuse us of having crock engines or or having a chip on our shoulders. "pessimistic" is spelt like this back to the same old dyno problem, if you dont like the sound of somebodys figures then knock it. Unfortunately there are a few members of this forum who think they know the power figure for everthing, and that BHP can be worked out exactly by mods and if it doesnt fit their idea then they start the "lets spoil the guys day and doubt his figure". "We are the experts, look we have 4000 posts, that makes us super smart" All hail the great poster lmao Contrary to any postitive power figure or what? I await the next vulture, and most of us know who that will be This is superb entertainment, I cant wait for the next few posts. Once again, well done Paul hope you get consistant readings, try a DYNOPACK. Tbourner, I've been there too, it reminds me of the hecklers in the muppets lmao Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiefgroover Posted April 8, 2005 Share Posted April 8, 2005 Something makes me think of sheep everytime this sort of thread gets going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael Posted April 8, 2005 Share Posted April 8, 2005 Why? Do sheep go out of their way to cause friction and manipulate fairly honest and grounded statements to trawl up historical rows from other forums? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarkey Posted April 8, 2005 Share Posted April 8, 2005 Chief - to be honest mate, I think you're making a mountain out of molehill and using this thread deliberately as an excuse for a personal slanging match. Can you show me in this thread .. where someone has been making nasty comments about Paul's Figures and bringing him down ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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