Toluene

[carl0s]

I'm reading an article which talks about 1987/1988 F1 and Honda's 1.5L V6 twin-turbo motor.

 

Apparently they ran 84% toluene

 

Could we do that then, and run super ultra lean, in theory? Run 4bar? (with appropriate turbo).

 

What if any point would there be to this?

 

Can toluene be had for less than £1/litre?

[carl0s]

Compression ratio. That's the one.

 

So, run mega toluene mix, and raise the CR to ~9.5:1.

 

Get better off-boost power. Sweet.

[Thorin]

Toluene can certainly be had for less than £1/litre, just how much I don't know though.

 

Running more than 10% mix would not be advisable at all, but there's much more knowledgable folk who'll advise just why.

[JohnA]

You can mix it up to 30% and you're laughing. MON will be 110 or thereabouts, it will probably refuse to detonate no matter what boost you throw at it.

Best is to dump it in an empty-ish tank and then fill it up with the rest of the fuel. This way it is reasonably well mixed.

Good for a high-boost Pod day, I wouldn't leave it for ages in the tank/fuelling system.

 

Not nice environmentally, the exh fumes will be more cancerogenic than usual.

[JustGav]

Wouldn't ethanol be a better option, given that they are now mixing it with normal fuel, production rates should be higher so costs should be better.

 

Also ethanol will be a LOT more healthy for the engine than toulene....

[carl0s]

mmmmm.

 

The carcinogenic/toxic factor is certainly greater than had crossed my mind. It's bad shit apparently.

[Jake]

Is it though?

I looked into this last year because I can get toluene locally. From what I could make out toluene is not a serious carcinogen.

[JohnA]

It is nasty.

Even spillage on your skin is dangerous, it goes through it and enters the blood stream. Gloves, and only handle outdoors.

 

It's cheap because unlike fuel it hasn't got duty slapped on it.

[Jake]

Even spillage on your skin is dangerous, it goes through it and enters the blood stream.

 

Do you have a source for that, John? Is it really any more dangerous than getting petrol on your skin? I can only find reference to it not being a good idea to inhale - though not much worse the petrol by the sound of it.

[JohnA]

Petrol contains Toluene, among others.

I don't know if it is worse than petrol, that itself is nastier than most people think.

Toluene mixes are used as industrial cleaner/thinners, and it smells *nice*

 

I've got a copy of the internet's version of 'Rocket Fuel' somewhere on my site (under 'advanced Fuelling' or something) Have a look, maybe I've also got relevant links as well.

 

The only thing about these mixes is that you waste lots of it during idling, warmup and off-boost driving. Except for Pod days, this is well over 90% of fuel used, isn't it?

 

That's why I like solutions that are only active under boost:d

[Thorin]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toluene#Toxicology_and_metabolism

[Chris Wilson]

I always run 10% by volume touene in turbo engines for a bit more octane, on track days, if I can't afford to run a proper fuel. More than that and you need to re map and take account of its lack of volatility (cold starting issues) and its viscosity (thicker than petrol, which already contains quite a lot of toluene anyway).

[JohnA]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toluene#Toxicology_and_metabolism

Brain damage it says there, I guess that explains my predicament:d

 

Methanol is not much better though, all of these liquids have to be handled with care, and inhaled as little as possible:blink:

 

I've used 1/3 toluene on a bike and it really was nice. Maybe the 'sloshing' around inside the bike's tank is more pronounced, because I don't remember any separation problems.

The fuel pump didn't complain either, I hadn't thought of it at the time but it was another risk of failure I should have expected.