Dragonball Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 So the only thing that is missing is a jap spec pump v walbro dyno v Chocoalte Teapot run Check this out - http://www.mkiv.com/techarticles/fuel_pumps_test/pump_test.jpg I am really at a loss to what else you are looking for lads...? It does exactly what it says on the tin! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Posted July 22, 2004 Author Share Posted July 22, 2004 Paul you know I was joking right. I'm one of your happy FSE customers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 Originally posted by Paul E I am really at a loss to what else you are looking for lads...? It does exactly what it says on the tin! This is all very disappointing, Paul. It might seem to some folks that you are deliberately evading the issue now. Several people have explained exactly what they are looking for : a direct comparision between a walbro on its own and a walbro with FSE. What part of that don't you understand? You can keep saying things like "It does exactly what it says on the tin" and "been proven to work" but that doesn't make it true until you can back it up. You keep presenting dyno charts of Supras with both items fitted as 'proof' that a FSE helps improve fueling when in fact it shows nothing of the sort. It merely shows that one or both of these items is helping. Apparently some folks are be happy buying A,B & C because, overall, it achieves the desired result but if part B is effectively snake oil I don't want it. However, let me repeat what I said before, just so there's no misunderstanding ; I'm am not saying that an FSE isn't a good thing. I am saying that so far there is no credible evidence to support the claims made about them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 Originally posted by Paul E So the only thing that is missing is a jap spec pump v walbro dyno v Chocoalte Teapot run Check this out - http://www.mkiv.com/techarticles/fuel_pumps_test/pump_test.jpg I am really at a loss to what else you are looking for lads...? It does exactly what it says on the tin! I don't understand what that graph has to do with this debate... Fuel flow/pressure graph for the MKIII and MKIV for std and Walbro pumps but no FSE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminator Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 Where does the stock UK pump fit in to this:flame Dev with out with out FSE. BTW my FSE will be for sale soon:flame Dev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Posted July 23, 2004 Author Share Posted July 23, 2004 Originally posted by Jake This is all very disappointing, Paul. It might seem to some folks that you are deliberately evading the issue now. Several people have explained exactly what they are looking for : a direct comparision between a walbro on its own and a walbro with FSE. What part of that don't you understand? You can keep saying things like "It does exactly what it says on the tin" and "been proven to work" but that doesn't make it true until you can back it up. You keep presenting dyno charts of Supras with both items fitted as 'proof' that a FSE helps improve fueling when in fact it shows nothing of the sort. It merely shows that one or both of these items is helping. Apparently some folks are be happy buying A,B & C because, overall, it achieves the desired result but if part B is effectively snake oil I don't want it. However, let me repeat what I said before, just so there's no misunderstanding ; I'm am not saying that an FSE isn't a good thing. I am saying that so far there is no credible evidence to support the claims made about them Fair point mate well put. But..... it isn't really down to the seller to determine how well his products will affect your car every time. He offers the range of products and you choose what ones you want. If you buy unleaded from the garage and it blows up your car it is not the garages fault it would be yours for choosing the wrong product. If you researched it you would find out that Optimax was right. If you could find no research then you would have to find your own answers by doing your own tests. You seem to be someone who doesn't believe something unless you have seen it with your own eyes which is the same as me. Also you can never trust a salesman (I can say that coz I am one). If you want to truly and impartially find out how the FSE affects your car then dyno it yourself or don't buy it. Don't get me wrong I do agree with most of what you say but I don't think it's fair to have a go at Paul about it he's not forcing you to buy it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Posted July 23, 2004 Author Share Posted July 23, 2004 Originally posted by Terminator Where does the stock UK pump fit in to this:flame Dev with out with out FSE. BTW my FSE will be for sale soon:flame Dev Why is it for sale or are you just strirring it up Phil ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonball Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 Jake I seriously really dont mind whether you buy one or not m8- really I dont - it's not that big an issue with me and I have nothing to gain or prove one way or another The uprated pump (whether UK spec or walbro) on it's own is a good thing - simple as that If you want to see what difference a walbro pump makes to your horsepower then please feel free to do a before and after dyno run at Billing - I will be happy to loan you a pump Up to you of course Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 Originally posted by Paul E I seriously really dont mind whether you buy one or not m8- really I dont - it's not that big an issue with me and I have nothing to gain or prove one way or another The uprated pump (whether UK spec or walbro) on it's own is a good thing - simple as that If you want to see what difference a walbro pump makes to your horsepower then please feel free to do a before and after dyno run at Billing - I will be happy to loan you a pump Hi Paul, I'm confused mate. Your reply seems to be unrelated to the rest of this thread. I've no idea why you're talking about pumps. As far as I am aware there's no debate about the worth of an uprated pump, everyone accepts that uprated fuel pump are a good thing. Whether or not you care if I buy one makes no difference to the point being discussed. Besides, as already stated in this very thread, I've already got a Walbro fitted. I bought it from you face-to-face about three weeks ago at that Sports Centre, remember? I'm quite happy with it thanks. Did you see my post about evading the issue with FSEs? (this all in good humour, right? It ain't worth falling out over) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonball Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 Oh yes - I remember. So why not just do a dyno now and then get an FSE fitted to see if there is a difference? The facts to the effectiveness of a COMBINED uprated walbro pump and an FSE are there - whether you choose to use them or not is up to you Frankly I am not evasive (and your post WAS a tad OTT!), just bored rigid with discussing FSE's - buy..dont buy...it's entirely up to you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 Originally posted by Paul E why not just do a dyno now and then get an FSE fitted to see if there is a difference? Because I don't want to be the one spending around £150 maybe to find that the FSE doesn't help the fueling. Frankly I am not evasive (and your post WAS a tad OTT!) Was it? My post was carefully writen to get my point across whilst avoiding saying anything too controversial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminator Posted July 24, 2004 Share Posted July 24, 2004 Originally posted by Justin Why is it for sale or are you just strirring it up Phil ? I thought about fitting my FSE but never got round to it, uprating my pump made the difference I was looking for. As there was no conclusive evidence to show it would make a difference that would warrant the extra time and money ie set up costs, I did not bother. I have not got access to the equipment to set it up. The FSE is up for sale if I can find it, I know I saw it somewhere:p The only way this will ever be concluded is for someone to shell out for dyno on replacement pump followed by dyno on replacement pump +fse. Unless I am mistaken we done have this yet!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonball Posted July 24, 2004 Share Posted July 24, 2004 Phil I'll take it from you please m8 I am waiting on some more to arrive and someone needs one urgently (he likes snake oil!) Cheers Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminator Posted July 24, 2004 Share Posted July 24, 2004 Like I said, I have to find it. When I get home again I'll see if I can find it among all my boxes of parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Posted July 27, 2004 Author Share Posted July 27, 2004 Did anybody do any dynos for this issue at JAE? My FSE might be up for sale now funnily enough:cry: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonball Posted July 27, 2004 Share Posted July 27, 2004 Originally posted by Justin Did anybody do any dynos for this issue at JAE? My FSE might be up for sale now funnily enough:cry: You have mail m8! please let me know - i will take it from you Cheers Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Posted July 30, 2004 Author Share Posted July 30, 2004 Hehe. This is funny. I found this whilst smurfing the interweb. This is the same FSE we use but they stuck it on their MG. The silly buggers, like us lot, still didn't do a 'FSE ONLY' dyno comparison. http://www.mgf.ultimatemg.com/fuel_rail/FSE_fuel_regulator.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted July 30, 2004 Share Posted July 30, 2004 What a load of bollocks. The only conclusion they managed to come to is that an FSE works better if you set it to the right fuel pressure! errrr, yeah thanks Thierry, very helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOR Racing Posted July 31, 2004 Share Posted July 31, 2004 I won't be drawn into your argument but I see it this way..... Uprated PUMP: .... allows better fuel flow. Or rather can supply the extra fuel required by the extra boost (say at 1.2bar) Uprated regulator (FSE) Simply allows you to make 440cc injectors look like 550cc by upping the pressure. Regards Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secondjump Posted July 31, 2004 Share Posted July 31, 2004 Originally posted by TRL Performance I won't be drawn into your argument but I see it this way..... Uprated PUMP: .... allows better fuel flow. Or rather can supply the extra fuel required by the extra boost (say at 1.2bar) Uprated regulator (FSE) Simply allows you to make 440cc injectors look like 550cc by upping the pressure. Regards Pete I see this as a debate that will help us make our own minds up.....so please expand on your reasons for a FSE Pete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonB Posted July 31, 2004 Share Posted July 31, 2004 What Pete is saying is that it's use is as an adjustable pressure regulator. In other words you can increase the fuel pressure above standard, which will mean more fuel flows for the same injector opening, same as if you'd increased the injector size. You would then need an Emanage or SAFC to lean it out everywhere except where you wanted some extra fuel i.e. at high boost/revs. This is what I am planning to do, with either an FSE or aeromotive pressure reg and Emanage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLicense Posted August 10, 2004 Share Posted August 10, 2004 Was there any resolution on this or have I missed something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonB Posted August 10, 2004 Share Posted August 10, 2004 Well, mine went on the dyno with a fuel pump and no FSE. It's overboosting at the moment (which I knew anyway as I have no restrictor ring as yet), but basically fuelling was OK up to 1.2 BAR, then it started getting a bit lean. I'm going to get either an FSE or aeromotive, purely as an adjustable pressure regulator to turn the fuel pressure up a bit and use an Emanage to trim it down. It would be hard to make a comparison though, even if I go for an FSE, as it would be the effect of increased fuel pressure that would make the difference, not the FSE per se. It clocked 430bhp at the hubs, but like I say that was at crazy boost (~1.45BAR), and consequently running lean. The graphs are on here somewhere - there was certainly no lack of low down torque or anything without an FSE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLicense Posted August 10, 2004 Share Posted August 10, 2004 Originally posted by SimonB Well, mine went on the dyno with a fuel pump and no FSE. It's overboosting at the moment (which I knew anyway as I have no restrictor ring as yet), but basically fuelling was OK up to 1.2 BAR, then it started getting a bit lean. I'm going to get either an FSE or aeromotive, purely as an adjustable pressure regulator to turn the fuel pressure up a bit and use an Emanage to trim it down. It would be hard to make a comparison though, even if I go for an FSE, as it would be the effect of increased fuel pressure that would make the difference, not the FSE per se. It clocked 430bhp at the hubs, but like I say that was at crazy boost (~1.45BAR), and consequently running lean. The graphs are on here somewhere - there was certainly no lack of low down torque or anything without an FSE. I saw the graphs si, didn't put 2+2 together to realise you were just running the fuel pump, and not the FSE and then relate it to this thread. OK so basically what we've proven here is that the pump on it's own is good to 1.2 bar, right? (That's all 90% of user will use anyway as it's the max the tubbies will reliably give, unless you're UK, in which case you definitely won't need the FSE, as the 550's should be up to the job anyhow) Now, the FSE will increase fuel past up to and past this point yeah? (As it increases pressure at a rising rate of 1:1.something with a 7 in yeah?) Well if the dyno graph is showing good fuel, then with a FSE, surely you'd be overfuelling and losing power? (I know you're going to be using the e-manage to trim it back, but I'm thinking in general terms) Even eith an adjustable FPR, (Aeromotive) if you actually adjusted it you'd be overfuelling, just not be as much at higher rpm and load as the FSE yeah? Does that make sense? What I'm saying is, if the pump is only just man enough for 1.2 bar, then maybe the FSE is a very good safety device, as it'll give you a little bit more fuel, and more at higher load/rpm which is where you really need the larger safety margin. But the downside of this is it'll rob power. If (like me) you have a means to adjust fuelling, it gives you the ability to run smaller injectors than ideal (440's rather than 550's for example) yet still keep the idle fuel line pressure at something like stock. If you went aeromotive, I'm guessing you could set it up to give you the extra fuelling at revs and load, but you would have to sacrifice the stock idle fuel line pressure right? (I guess that's not a problem if you have means of adjusting fuel maps, as you would just run less duty at idle) Are there any gains/disadvantages to running a higher line pressure but lower duty at idle? I don't know. If something I've said here is not right let me know. I've already got an FSE, and am not into slagging it off or not, I'm just trying to find out what the capabilities of it are. Cheers Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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