TLicense Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 The F-Con Pro V is the daddy of the ecu's with others using it as a bench mark. You mean of all the piggyback ecu's right? Motech is generally regarded as being THE benchmark for all ecu's. (standalone and piggyback) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 Is the MoTeC really the best? Surely there is other options? Or is it the best aftermarket only one? Unlimited budget time.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 This is daft. We keep doing it. Horses for Courses. And Tony, the V Pro can work just fine as a Stand Alone, and has more preocessing power than all the others. Finding someone good to tune it is a much different matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 You mean of all the piggyback ecu's right? Motech is generally regarded as being THE benchmark for all ecu's. (standalone and piggyback) Fcon S is piggyback Fcon V Pro is standalone or piggyback....just like the AEM can be a piggyback...and an M800 etc etc.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 Does £800-£1000 sound like a good price for mapping an Fcon V Pro, Tel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLicense Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 Is the MoTeC really the best? Surely there is other options? Or is it the best aftermarket only one? Unlimited budget time.... Magneti morelli (sp!!) or Tag heuer custom built. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLicense Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 This is daft. We keep doing it. Horses for Courses. And Tony, the V Pro can work just fine as a Stand Alone, and has more preocessing power than all the others. Finding someone good to tune it is a much different matter. So what does it do with the processing power that the others don't? I don't see no launch control/traction control of speed limiter (say for pit lane) on pauls list. To me it looks like it does the basics of what a EMS should do but no more. Not being confrontational, I really don't know much about F-con's so am keen to learn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLicense Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 just like the AEM can be a piggyback Pretty sure the AEM can't be run piggyback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terribleturner Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 I wasn't aware about the AEM being piggyback too. Otherwise the Auto issue would be fine wouldn't it?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 So what does it do with the processing power that the others don't? I don't see no launch control/traction control of speed limiter (say for pit lane) on pauls list. To me it looks like it does the basics of what a EMS should do but no more. Not being confrontational, I really don't know much about F-con's so am keen to learn. speed, it uses a board purely for datalogging/comms. It does an awful lot more than Paul's description. Downside is I cant get near the proper software so cant give you any idea just how much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 I wasn't aware about the AEM being piggyback too. Otherwise the Auto issue would be fine wouldn't it?? You have to custome wire it in but yes it will.... Sound Performance did it on a VVTi in the US...think Arnout might have too... The Processor speed does matter, as does it's bit rate. The faster and more complex the ECU the more floating point calcs it can make a second and the finer the control you can have over the engine. With all those sensors flooding the ECU with data the faster it can take it all in and spit out what it needs the better. IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 Magneti morelli (sp!!) or Tag heuer custom built. Cool so you can go to them as Joe Bloggs and they'd do something custom for you if you gave them enough wedge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLicense Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 Yup. IF you had enough cash. I hear that an F1 ECU costs in the region of £30K. That's without the mapping by the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 Yup. IF you had enough cash. I hear that an F1 ECU costs in the region of £30K. That's without the mapping by the way. I have been told that the V Pro was based on a Magneti morelli F1 ECU, the validity of the comment I don't know. I trust they guy who told us but you know how things get lost in translation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLicense Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 You have to custome wire it in but yes it will.... Sound Performance did it on a VVTi in the US...think Arnout might have too... The Processor speed does matter, as does it's bit rate. The faster and more complex the ECU the more floating point calcs it can make a second and the finer the control you can have over the engine. With all those sensors flooding the ECU with data the faster it can take it all in and spit out what it needs the better. IMO. Hmmm. Interesting about the "piggyback AEM". IF and when AEM confirm there is no autobox issue, it'll kinda make it redundant. In the meanwhile not a bad idea. Not sure why having a faster processor will give you more control. Surely it's down to the software and the map resolution? Personally I find the bind is the amount of on-board memory storage. I track day'd a couple of month's ago. The sessions were 30 mins each. I had to reduce the sample rate quite considerably on my AEM to have the storage space so that I could download the data between sessions. I think it's only got 500KB (Although I remember seeing a typo somewhere, where it said it had 500MB!) The max sample rate is 250Hz. Engine RPM limit is 7200 = 120Hz. The problem is at 250Hz sample time is something like 2.5 mins. Not good. The AEM can also datalog direct to a laptop, where the storage limit is down to the hard-disk (good) but it's reliant on the serial port for sample speed (which with my very old lap-top is bad) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLicense Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 I have been told that the V Pro was based on a Magneti morelli F1 ECU, the validity of the comment I don't know. I trust they guy who told us but you know how things get lost in translation I'd be VERY suprised if it were, but I guess there's no reason why they couldn't have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 You have to custome wire it in but yes it will.... Sound Performance did it on a VVTi in the US...think Arnout might have too... The Processor speed does matter, as does it's bit rate. The faster and more complex the ECU the more floating point calcs it can make a second and the finer the control you can have over the engine. With all those sensors flooding the ECU with data the faster it can take it all in and spit out what it needs the better. IMO. Mmmmmm I'd have to wade in here and say that engine control is a real low load on a processor... I'd be suprised if modern car ECUs were even 32bit - or if they are, it's only because that's all that is available these days. Worst case scenario: 12 injectors 12 coil-on-plugs 8000rpm = 67 spark and injection events per second * 24 things to do (inject and spark) = 1608 outputs per second. You'd have to constantly measure the inputs from: Cam pos sensor (say 4 of these for a V12) Crank pos sensor (1) Throttle position (1) blah blah let's just say 10 inputs sampled 1000 times a second (that's a big over estimate although I'm sure someone can tell me otherwise) = 10000 inputs/s There are other things like traccy control or ABS or autobox or idle-up sensors, working turbo VSVs, reading temperature sensors but they are a drop in the ocean because they will be switched or sampled at a much lower rate. Lets add on another 100 inputs and 100 outputs per second to cover all that. So - inputs per second = 1700, outputs per second = 10100, total = 11800 things to do per second, call it 12000 for clarity's sake. OK, between those is all the maths where it works out what the sensors are saying and picks a duty cycle and an ignition timing. Not a complex set of calculations compared to rendering an average scene in Half Life 2, is it? Some basic maths and that's it. Add some bandwidth for checking the map tables and maybe even writing out to the self-learning trim tables, you are still going to have to go some way to push one MILLION operations a second. Which is how fast a Commodore 64 ran So I think processor power isn't an issue when it comes to ECU's -Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 There are FAR more exotic ecus than the Moted, but the Motec is considered one of the best ranges of ecus at a price the club racer might afford. hell, the STOCK ecu is FAR more sophisticated than ANY Motec and probably as sophisticated as ANy aftermarket ecu. I sell the odd EFI Technology ecus, and some Zyteks, both make Motec look cheapo stuff. Horses for courses, but the common mistake people make is thinking (hoping?) that a piggy back ecu will make a modded car run well. They very often are nothing like as sophisticated as the map rewuired to run a modded engine PROPERLY. IMO, but i am right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonball Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 Does £800-£1000 sound like a good price for mapping an Fcon V Pro, Tel? I think that Owen quoted approx £600 / £700 to map (dyno 6 hours approx) and then some road stuff... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLicense Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 They very often are nothing like as sophisticated as the map rewuired to run a modded engine PROPERLY. IMO, but i am right and also making very little sense. LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 "required" not "rewired" - it makes sense then CW obviously has an E-Manage running his spellchecker -Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLicense Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 Ahhh got it now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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