mawby Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 I really don't understand what you are after here? You've just said "Contrary to what my sister may think, I do favour discretion and the system would appear to operate well at present" but then want answers to situations that are unlikely to occur. If they do then it would be up to the discretion of the moderator contacted as what to do about it. Here's an hypothetical question for you. Should I now tell Ewen that his friend has to pay to advertise on here even if Ewen decides to post on his behalf? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faye Brother Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 I favour discretion generally, but not in the context of how it is applied to whether or not someone has to pay for their For Sale thread. My fault for not making that clearer. Whether or not I agree with the current system doesn't alter the fact that it does appear to work well at present. Both you and Ian cite that the flexibility is there for the benefit of members and I can see that argument. However, the principle established by this is that someone will get free advertising whilst someone else will not, which clearly isn't fair especially if you've paid your money. No matter how unlikely you consider such a situation to be, it is a distinct possibility that someone will raise this an issue. If I were in that position I would certainly either request that the other person paid up or that I received a refund so I could benefit from some free advertising. If you're going to run the Classifieds on the basis that only paid up members can post that is how it should remain. Regarding your hypothetical question, if Ewen's friend wants to advertise himself then he has to pay. If, on the other hand, Ewen were to post on his behalf (which I understand is acceptable practice on here) then he wouldn't. Personally, advertising on behalf of a third party is a no-no for me as well, but that's for another thread. As I've had the courtesy of replying to hypothetical question, perhaps you could do the same to mine? Two near identical cars are advertised at similar prices. Seller 1 doesn't pay, but Seller 2 does. Seller 2 raises this apparent discrepancy and asks that either Seller 1 has their advert removed or they pay up, or that they (Seller 2) receives a refund. How do you tackle that with your discretion? (Assumption that both users have signed up to sell their cars) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mawby Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 Your example assumes that seller 2... Will be a newbie who is willing to pay the membership fee just to advertise. Will pay the membership fee without first asking a mod why they have to. Will spot another thread in the classfieds forum posted by a non-club member in the first place. Will have such an issue with this as to kick up a fuss without first questioning why it was allowed. Is not willing to except that a mod authorised it for what ever reason. Is prepared to kick up a fuss when they are only interested in selling something. I would argue that all of the above are extremely unlikely to happen and have never happened to date. Your example also assumes that... We have many people who pay the membership fee only to sell stuff. We authorise many newbie threads to go into the classifieds forum. Both of these statements are false, and as a result the chance of your example ever occuring is now verging on insignificant. At the end of the day the moderators decision is final. If seller 2 feels so hard done by that they want to leave the club then they can. But can you honestly see that happening? Certainly not before they've sold what they were trying to sell, at which point they would have been leaving anyway! No refunds are given. You're telling me that if you paid to advertise in Autotrader, then found out the editor had given Joe Bloggs a free advert (for whatever reason - at his/her discretion) you would then complain about this and expect a refund? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faye Brother Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 I think you nearly answered my question in there.........somewhere........ In summation, some people don't have to pay to advertise, other people do. Just depends on what you're selling and how you go about it initially. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbourner Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 In summation, some people don't have to pay to advertise, other people do. Just depends on how you go about it initially. Thanks. That sounds fair to me. What Lee's saying is common sense, if you didn't have the common sense to ask the forum admin about a problem with posting and/or hadn't read the forum rules before trying to post.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faye Brother Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 Do you actually believe it is fair that someone who isn't a paid up member can receive free advertising exposure on here then? The majority of people have to/do pay as the Classifieds section is pay to post only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 I think the maxim "we'll cross that bridge *if* and when we come to it" is apt in this situation -Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mawby Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 I think you nearly answered my question in there.........somewhere........ In summation, some people don't have to pay to advertise, other people do. Just depends on what you're selling and how you go about it initially.Hang on, that question was answered back in post 13 when I said "The rules are there so everyone knows what to expect, and the mods are there to enforce them, but the mods also have the authority to make exceptions to the rule if deemed in the clubs interest." Since then you've been asking loads of "what if" style questions that I've tried to answer. Then 16 posts later you post up saying I nearly answered the question somewhere and just rehash what I answered originally. WTF? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mawby Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 Do you actually believe it is fair that someone who isn't a paid up member can receive free advertising exposure on here then? Do you think it is unreasonable that a moderator is allowed to make that decision? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faye Brother Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 Hang on, that question was answered back in post 13 when I said "The rules are there so everyone knows what to expect, and the mods are there to enforce them, but the mods also have the authority to make exceptions to the rule if deemed in the clubs interest." Since then you've been asking loads of "what if" style questions that I've tried to answer. Then 16 posts later you post up saying I nearly answered the question somewhere and just rehash what I answered originally. WTF? I disagree that you've answered my question, but you're then going to disagree with me disagreeing with you, etc, etc. Do you think it is unreasonable that a moderator is allowed to make that decision? I don't think it unreasonable that a moderator be allowed to make that decision. What I'm questioning is whether or not it is fair that the flexibility exists to make that decision in the first place, especially considering that the Classifieds section is pay to post only. As we're clearly at odds on this matter, and unless you want to go on like this for ever and a day, I'd suggest we leave it here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mawby Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 What I'm questioning is whether or not it is fair that the flexibility exists to make that decision in the first placeThis I obviously don't understand because how I see it you are suggesting that the idea of having mods in the first place is unfair because they are able to do things that others can't? If so then yes, it is unfair. We are running a 'reasonable' but very occasionaly 'unfair' system here. End of subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faye Brother Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 No, that's not what I'm saying. My point relates to the fairness or otherwise of permitting (in certain circumstances) non-paid up members to advertise for free in the Classifieds section, when it's pay to post for everyone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mawby Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 My point relates to the fairness or otherwise of permitting (in certain circumstances) non-paid up members to advertise for free in the Classifieds section' date=' when it's pay to post for everyone else.[/quote']Which is a moderators decision... a decision you have just said it's reasonable to allow them to make. So you are saying it's perfectly reasonable for us to make this decision, but if we do then we're being unfair. Which suggests you don't mind us being unfair, as if you did you would say it's unreasonable for us to make this decision. So I'm completely lost as to why I've wasted the day replying if all you wanted to say was "I think this is unfair but it's reasonable that it's unfair so keep it like that". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 I'm dizzy now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faye Brother Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 One last time: Everyone has to pay to post in the Classifieds. It's not like the other forums where you enjoy a certain amount of 'free' posts. A new user/existing non paying user contacts a moderator and asks whether they can have their advert in the For Sale section. Moderator agrees and non-paying user is now advertising for free. Yes, the discretion exists for the moderator to say yes or no, but that is not the point. The point is that the flexibility to permit a non-paying member to advertise exists in the first place, irrespective of who may or may not exercise it. You appear to be confusing my agreement of the fact that it is permissible for a moderator to make that decison in the current circumstances, with my actual question of whether or not the flexibility to make such a decision should exist in the first place given that the Classifieds section is pay to post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chiefvinso Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 Rules are meant to be bent - its life, its about knowing the right people, its how pissed off someone feels, its human nature. If things go through the mods and they are happy with it then we should respect that - after all they are voted in and do alot for their members. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ewen Posted October 3, 2005 Author Share Posted October 3, 2005 Bloody hell guys.... My friend Rich has a very nice Supra for sale. He loves his Supe but new house / wife / finances have made him decide to reluctantly sell it. He wants it to go to a fellow Supra enthusiast....you guys are into Supras, I suggested he lets you guys know its for sale. Obviously he thanked me for my offer of help, but I know Rich would be embarassed if he thought some members thought he was trying to get free advertising. He will gladly pay his tenner to join then post the 'for sale' if that means we can go back to Def Con 3 and the safety of mankind is assured. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 huh? Seems like only one person is questioning whether it's OK for you to post for your friend. Just post it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ewen Posted October 3, 2005 Author Share Posted October 3, 2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 Hell yeah get it posted, you've paid your £10 afterall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faye Brother Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 huh? Seems like only one person is questioning whether it's OK for you to post for your friend. Just post it. That's not the issue I'm questioning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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