Alex Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 I see what you mean Side on, A _____/____ design would keep the bottom flat and guide air upto the starved radiator, thus reducing the cooling losses of having an FMIC, and further helping to box the FMIC. And you could extend the lip of the undertray out an inch for added hi/lo pressure benefits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 Great minds eh, but I dont want to if there is a good reason for the raised section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 Quite honestly I think it's down to, frontal area - which an undertray wouldn't impact on - styling - negligable impact - and height above the ground for manouvering (multi stories etc) but I hope Digsy or Tony can confirm. Also, the flip up for the rad wouldn't have to be the full width of the rad. As long as the undertray finished at the stock height and location can't see the removal of the hot air being impacted and that's the only real concern here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLicense Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 I'm not sure if I understand what you mean? The f360 has two "side inlets" and 1 "centre inlet" Is this what you mean? Which area's are you thinking of ducting to where? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 Ah that car has exactly what I was thinking of, but I *think a bog stock 360 doesnt have that Lip you show there Tony. What is the purpose of the raised centre section if the lip is not present Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 like this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 It's the raised lower edge between the intakes...the Stillen and the old veilside raise up in the middle of the nose. Is this going to serve any purpose other than, asthetics, reduced frontal area? http://www.linney.org/images/bluesup1new.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 Terry, Just been looking at a pic of Ian's, The raised section on the Stillen is too slight to be anything other than asthetics. It's on a 1-2cm gap. Bolt on an undertray...you know you want to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 LMAO you got a decnt pic of Ians front showing the area sho I can show Tony what I was thinking?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 Here you go. -Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 here EDIT - doh too late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 Thanks Ian Tony thinking of building an undertray The plan being to direct the air scooped by that centre section through the radiator to aid cooling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxx Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 Okay, I found this sight some time ago and I think it might of great interest to you, it explains the reasons for the raised center section on the Stillen and Veilside noses. How Does A Splitter Work? It's got quite a lot of interesting stuff about lowering etc too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLicense Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 Ahhh OK. I'm not sure what Ferrari were intending with a raised center. TBH it's the exact opposite of what I would want to do. The centre is the part you could potentially get to work hardest. (ie be lowest to the ground) As far as putting an undertray on, as I said before you're into completely unchatered territory in terms of effects. However that said, I guess if you created a duct there, it would be as if it were replacing the stock lip (Obviously with the addition of a duct!) So maybe there wouldn't be any major side effects. Ducts are a REAL PITA when it comes to flows. Especially if they area going up to a massive blockage like a radiator or brake discs (or in fact most things that get hot and you want to cool them - typical!) It really depends upon how thorough you want to go really. You could create a quick "bodge" and splash some water with food dye all around it and then go for a raz up the road and back and see whats working and whats not, or you could throw a few pressure sensors around the duct, or if you're real flash you could go and buy some pitots and install them to get an idea of whats happening throughout the duct cross section(Very expensive though!) Once you've got an indication of what works and what doesn't, you can then start on the more refined finished example. The main problem isn't so much on getting the air into the duct (although obiously avoid *any* sharp corners as the airflow will stall - if you can't avoid them, blend them in and smooth them through with body filler) The real problem with ducting is getting the air out once it's done it's job. Ideally a real low pressure area behind the part your cooling would be what you need, (Again a job for the pressure sensors!) Bonnet vents and the like should help that out. The other question is of course, would the creation of a duct create any drag? Unforunately this is a real difficult one to answer without some reasonably complicated testing. (Torque sensors on the driveshafts to calculate load, known RPM's, and some pitot tubes attached to pressure sensors to calculate vehicle speed relative to airflow would just about do it) Other than that the other option is some top speed testing and see how fast she goes. The final question (which maybe should be the first question!) is does whatever you're intending to cool, actually need cooling? MY rad temps (alhough my car is no-where near as modified as many on here) remain nicely btween 80-90 degs, even on heavy blasts. Are you seeing temperature spikes a lot higher than that? Just thinking there maybe more cost effective ways (although no-where near as flash) of reducing high temps. You could probably tell me more about that than I could tell you mate. So basically, yeah, if done rightly I can't see too many flaws with it, but then I thought the bodywork I'd been drawing for the last two months was going to be good :thumbdown Oh well back to the drawing board..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 Maxx thanks for the link Tony, great input mate. The water temps on this car havent been too bad so far, where as the last car with a Bigger FMIC would suffer on a hot day with sustained blasts. The FMIC obviously gives the stock Radiator a harder time than usual and I was thinking this would help alleviate it, but I do not believe it is necessary for road use, purely track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazboy Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 What are the drag cd's for the Supra? I read somewhere it's .31, but is that with, or without the rear wing & active lip? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbeh Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 Something to note... Top Secret couldnt push over 194 mph with their front bumper on the gold Supra that went down the A1, and their car had 1000ps apprently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lust2luv Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 Sure I read somewhere that removing the stock rear spoiler actually ups the drag coefficient +0.01, since it acts to reduce turbulence over the rear of the car. Don't know if it's true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 Sure I read somewhere that removing the stock rear spoiler actually ups the drag coefficient +0.01, since it acts to reduce turbulence over the rear of the car. Don't know if it's true. it is true n/a supra is .31 supra turbo is .32 due to wider tyres/frontal area supra turbo with rear wing is .33 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syed Shah Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 John, last two numbers mixed up. It is 0.32 with spoiler, 0.33 without. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 HMMM either I'm going mad or I'm not reading the sites I've visited corectly But most of them put the Supra Turbo with spoiler at 0.33 and without at 0.34 and some of them even list it as 0.32 with and 0.33 without ..Either way they are all making it less efficient without spoiler ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 John, last two numbers mixed up. It is 0.32 with spoiler, 0.33 without. The rear spoiler could only worsen the Cd dude... (that's why you can get a few mph extra without it ) Maybe you're thinking of lift or something... http://www.max-boost.co.uk/stuff/Supra_Cd.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLicense Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 The rear spoiler could only worsen the Cd dude... In this instance yes, but not necessarily true all the time. Quite often we add parts that look like they're going to add drag, to our cars but end up reducing it. (They usually get added for other reasons - we don't intentionally design draggy cars..... On current form I've opened myself up for a slating there maybe ) The chimneys (The exits on the sidepods that let air out once it's passed through the radiators, the bits with Honda written on them) reduced drag. So much so that it was better to run them on the car but tapped over than it was to remove them when the abient dropped. But essentially if it creates downforce, IT WILL create drag, However if it creates drag it doesn't necessarily create downforce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 I'll remember this when I write the ad to sell the NA... "Better drag coefficient that a TT!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 In this instance yes, but not necessarily true all the time. you're talking about addons that smooth out the trailing vortices, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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