Stock induction how good is it.

[Terminator]

This is not a which is better thread, as most of us realise the stock system has so many advantages over AM kits.

 

I just wondered how far the stock kit will go in terms of big horse power before it starts to restrict air flow.

 

All the Single kits you see have big KN or Apexi filters on a 4" intake. Which virtually doubles the intake pipe area.

 

Has anyone run a single with the stock induction?

 

How far will the stock system go?

[Toms Supra]

I think a O.E air box will suffocate a single turbo! And look silly.

[JohnA]

If I were running a single I'd have it hooked to the stock airbox with stock filter

 

I would only consider otherwise if the SMIC space were empty, and could create a sealed intake from over there, now *that* might be superior, unlike cones (with reduced active surface) in the hot engine bay.

[Toms Supra]

yeh good idea running along pipe to the O.E I/C area.

[terawua]

If I were running a single I'd have it hooked to the stock airbox with stock filter

 

I would only consider otherwise if the SMIC space were empty, and could create a sealed intake from over there, now *that* might be superior, unlike cones (with reduced active surface) in the hot engine bay.

 

 

This is what I have planned- Leon Green did it for Charlie (B'Have). I now have a free SMIC space since getting my FMIC fitted, and I was going to get a jolly large hole saw(!), and cut through the gunwhale, and connect a scoop the the underside to force air into a cold air intake which I was also going to make. At present I have a cone type filter which is sucking warm air from the engine bay. The cold air intake is supposed to be worth some hp, plus will look trick if the cold air intake box is polished

[Matt T]

Are the no CAI available for the Supra then? I had an AEM v" on my civic and it was fantastic, filter was located right at the bottom of the bumper infront of the intake. I guess a universal CAI like a Viper or BMC would be the best option?

[adi2009]

If u've got a 4 row routing it might be possible to fit a cone filter where the SMIC was. But would the length of the piping affect its efficiency???

[JohnA]

Pressurising a large airbox is superior (especially under boost at speed) to simply directing cool air towards a cone filter.

 

To do it properly you need the whole assembly around the filter sealed and ducted --- with a relatively small (but rounded) 'mouth' that progressively increases in diameter as it meets the box. This is important if the airspeed is to be lowered half-decently before reaching the filtering element.

 

The element itself needs to have a lot of surface area as well, the stock filter is several times larger than a cone (if both are fully unfolded)

 

Toyota designers are no morons, they know how to design a proper air intake, and can do it much better than eBay con-artists and aftermarket 'gurus'

[Matt T]

Pressurising a large airbox is superior (especially under boost at speed) to simply directing cool air towards a cone filter.

 

To do it properly you need the whole assembly around the filter sealed and ducted --- with a relatively small (but rounded) 'mouth' that progressively increases in diameter as it meets the box. This is important if the airspeed is to be lowered half-decently before reaching the filtering element.

 

The element itself needs to have a lot of surface area as well, the stock filter is several times larger than a cone (if both are fully unfolded)

 

Toyota designers are no morons, they know how to design a proper air intake, and can do it much better than eBay con-artists and aftermarket 'gurus'

Surely you would get a 'ram' effect from a properly placed cone filter though? And the open ended cones must have a much larger area than normal cones?

 

And dont forget, Toyota didnt design the filters to be the ultimate in performance.

[terawua]

Pressurising a large airbox is superior (especially under boost at speed) to simply directing cool air towards a cone filter.

 

To do it properly you need the whole assembly around the filter sealed and ducted --- with a relatively small (but rounded) 'mouth' that progressively increases in diameter as it meets the box. This is important if the airspeed is to be lowered half-decently before reaching the filtering element.

 

The element itself needs to have a lot of surface area as well, the stock filter is several times larger than a cone (if both are fully unfolded)

 

Toyota designers are no morons, they know how to design a proper air intake, and can do it much better than eBay con-artists and aftermarket 'gurus'

 

 

Hmm so what about if I make an intake box (sealed of course) to take a possibly larger than stock panel filter? then try and incorporate feeding it air from below from my now vacant right side air intake.. will borrowing this air have a very deleterious effect on the right front brake temperatures?

[JohnA]

Surely you would get a 'ram' effect from a properly placed cone filter though?.

none whatsoever.

You'll get the cold air induction which is usually half the gain of a ram-air system, but no ramair.

.

And the open ended cones must have a much larger area than normal cones? .

measure them.

When I ditched the APEXi that came with my car, I found it to have almost one fifth the area of the stock element.

Now that's not what I'd call a performance upgrade.

Hot air effect came for free. :thumbdown

.

And dont forget, Toyota didnt design the filters to be the ultimate in performance.

Neither do the aftermarket suppliers who don't even have to satisfy OEM standards of filtering (or any standards for this matter)

Except if Bling and 'noiz' count as an upgrade.

[imi]

interesting thread

[adi2009]

I quite agree with the ram air effect of the stock box over the cone filter. I really would like to try it but hate drilling holes in my car (that's just me ) WOuld be interesting to consider other possibilities though.

 

But how about the K&N panel filters (stock replacement) arent they supposed to flow more than the stock ones??? Never experimented with one of them

[Matt T]

none whatsoever.

You'll get the cold air induction which is usually half the gain of a ram-air system, but no ramair.

.

measure them.

When I ditched the APEXi that came with my car, I found it to have almost one fifth the area of the stock element.

Now that's not what I'd call a performance upgrade.

Hot air effect came for free. :thumbdown

.

Neither do the aftermarket suppliers who don't even have to satisfy OEM standards of filtering (or any standards for this matter)

Except if Bling and 'noiz' count as an upgrade.

 

The Apexi isnt a dual cone design though, i find it hard to believe the whole surface of the cone is less than a fifth of the oem filter? It must be huge?

 

The branded aftermarket suppliers will need to produce to some standards, else it would ruin their reputation. The crappy no name ones may be rubbish yes. Plus plenty of tests have been done to show the materials flow alot more air than stock filter material, of course at the expense of filtration, but thats a trade off i guess. The OEM induction box will be produced with noise restrictions, filter restrictions etc... that aftermarket kits wont be.

 

I guess the only concrete way of testing would be to RR a car with the stock airbox on then again with an aftermarket kit on. I really cant see the stock system being better than a BMC sealed filter with a direct cold air feed though.

[Terminator]

I think a O.E air box will suffocate a single turbo!

I think it may too, but I want to find out how far it can go as it is the best thing there is to deliver cool air to the intake. I dont like the power sapping hot air at low speeds suffered by cone filter under the bonnet.

 

And look silly.

If it gains horses I dont care what it looks like, I dont usually drive around with the bonnet open. I want power not bling. The dark side is good.

 

Great to here some ideas on the subject. I was wonder in what would happen if the back of the box was opend to 4" the limiting factor would be the openings. anyone got any off the car so the cross sectional area could be worked out.

[JohnA]

The Apexi isnt a dual cone design though, i find it hard to believe the whole surface of the cone is less than a fifth of the oem filter? It must be huge?

appearances can be deceptive

The branded aftermarket suppliers will need to produce to some standards, else it would ruin their reputation..

Not really. There will always be a queue of punters ready to hand over good money for useless, underperforming add-on crap with huge profit margins.

Everybody makes money out of this, the 'tuners' the magazines (through advertising) the lot. Even decent garages make money, via the frequent engine rebuilds from such monstrosities (piston rings, valve seats, and more. Fine dust mixed with oil mist acts as abrasive paste, rev in, rev out )

.

The crappy no name ones may be rubbish yes. Plus plenty of tests have been done to show the materials flow alot more air than stock filter material, of course at the expense of filtration, but thats a trade off i guess.

These 'tests' are very misleading.

I have a lot more on my site.

 

The OEM induction box will be produced with noise restrictions, filter restrictions etc... that aftermarket kits wont be..

no need for quality control whatsoever, you're right there

What they fail to point out is what a tiny proportion of the overall intake restriction is the element itself. Miniscule. You allow 10+ more abrasive particles in exchange for 'gains' that are well within the error margin of a RR.

Any real gains you see stem from the elimination of the airbox and the open bonnet

.

I guess the only concrete way of testing would be to RR a car with the stock airbox on then again with an aftermarket kit on. .

I've done it, so have others. So have magazines (whose life-blood is advertisers like these)

The results have varied markedly:cool:

 

For beginers, do a RR test with and without any filter in the box. (can't get freer flow than that, can you?)

Might be an eye opener.

[mikeyb10supra]

If I was running a single, I would be tempted to mount a cone filter in the front wing away from any heat what so ever......I think this would out do the stock set-up......after a debate with John a while back about cone filters I went back to my stock filter purely for filteration purposes

and I also agree that stock air intake will be better than any cone filter upto BPU

[JohnA]

I agree, if you have the SMIC space free, it's a crime not to use it.

It is away from the engine bay, and has access to lots of high-pressure airflow.

[ardasaliah]

Has an independent power test been done? Relatively easy to set up. Would be interested to see the results.

 

ARDZ

[JohnA]

I've lost count of the times the same questions have been asked, again and again and again....

and again

and again

 

bling (and 'noiz') always win mate.

[imi]

So lets single out the Apexi Cone Filter.

 

According to the tests the filtration of this particular one seems to be "excellent". If one were to use an enclosure to sheild the filter from the heat in the engine bay - one would be onto a winner, right?

[JohnA]

So lets single out the Apexi Cone Filter.

 

According to the tests the filtration of this particular one seems to be "excellent".

yes, it has the best filtration compared to the other aftermarket filters. It's got a paper element, that's why.

If one were to use an enclosure to sheild the filter from the heat in the engine bay - one would be onto a winner, right?

right!

It would be the best of the aftermarket solutions.

 

(worse than the standard setup, but best of the aftermarket bunch nonetheless)

[imi]

Aha..its got a paper element....

 

the question then is, how come its maintenance free, surely the paper element would get clogged up?

[JohnA]

Yes, then you have to buy another one.

A good friend of mine has a well-tuned skylineR33 with the twin-APEXi filters.

That has less laughable surface area, but if you compare it to the stock Nissan box it's probably better (save the hot air routine)

 

The Supra is endowed with a decently-sized airbox, containing a decently-sized element, coupled to an almost-decent pair of cold air intakes (with the headlight off it's bliss)

 

I'd be in no hurry to ditch it

[imi]

 

I'd be in no hurry to ditch it

 

 

unfortunately, that decision was already made for me when I bought the car, and I have just recently dropped in a fresh filter (advice from a tuner here).

 

Personally, I will now go back to the Stock intake - for me it is also one less worry with the insurance company too