Scoboblio Posted May 14, 2005 Share Posted May 14, 2005 Hope you can help me with this guys / girls, A friend of mine has just bought a UK 6 speed on an L plate, 113k, but hasn't picked it up yet. The owner told him it smoked on startup and throttle blips, which toyota put down to the valve stem oil steals. These were replaced, but it still smokes It had a 10 mile drive after the seals were replaced, would this have been long enough to get rid of any left over oil? Obviously the turbos are now the main suspect... not a job he wants to do when he hasn't even taken delivery of the car yet. The current owner has given him the option of pulling out of the sale - so here's the dillemma; Does he pull out of the sale altogether? Buy 2nd hand UK turbos? Get toyota to replace with stock? Get the possibly knackered ones rebuilt? Opinions and experiences would be welcome ps. I'm assuming it's blue smoke considering Toyota recommended oil seals, but the current owner didn't specify... should have an answer soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonball Posted May 14, 2005 Share Posted May 14, 2005 Will cost him £1000 by the time he has new ones (second hand) in and serviced etc IMHO Would never put these in through as without history you never know how long they might last £2000 for hybrids... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted May 14, 2005 Share Posted May 14, 2005 In addition, at the very least I'd like to see the results of a compression test. You never know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarkey Posted May 14, 2005 Share Posted May 14, 2005 In my limited knowledge .. lol You can remove the intercooler pipe (i think) that connects to the ETTC bit. If the inside of the pipe is coated with oil then it's very likely to be turbo seals. Because the only thing that should be flowing through that pipe is compressed air and at that point it hasn't even got to the engine. After talking to one of the techie guys here ... a small amount of oil - is acceptable ... but not excessive amounts. That's what I did ... removed the pipe and the inside of pipe was very oily. Get your friend to go T61 single and knock £2000 off the asking price! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branners Posted May 14, 2005 Share Posted May 14, 2005 In addition, at the very least I'd like to see the results of a compression test. You never know... Indeed, I did a 4 day test drive on a UK spec from an importer many years ago and thought the lag on the first turbo was shocking compared to my then import. I was 1 day away from buying it and just happened to get it compression checked, I knew something was wrong when we tested all 6 pistons and then the mechanic said he needed to check them again. 5 of the 6 pistons were down so I walked away from the car. However as your friend has found a UK spec 6sp they are pretty rare, if the compression test comes back okay and he can get £1500 off the price then its worth a punt. Theres a set of hybrids for sale by Supragal at the moment and he could snap those up possibly... JB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted May 14, 2005 Share Posted May 14, 2005 Indeed, I did a 4 day test drive on a UK spec from an importer many years ago and thought the lag on the first turbo was shocking compared to my then import.... My experience was even more pronounced. I couldn't feel *any* evidence of boost from the second turbo:cry:. I knew that the first one did something, because the DV was audible (only just) but at 4Krpm nothing....So I was prepared for the turbo to be fecked, and got myself a set of recon replacements. The price I paid easily reflected fecked turbos, so I didn't mind too much. To my surpsise when I fitted a boost gauge it was boosting perfectly, it's just the torque curve of the UK-spec that it's so flat that it feels n/a A dodgy show from the compression test I'd take much more seriously though, because fixing rings (if that is the problem) not only asks for the turbos to come out, but also the intake, the head, block, the lot. So I wouldn't touch a Supra suspected of needing rings, who knows if it also needs bigger pistons. It would have to be £3-4K below market price for me to even consider it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Posted May 14, 2005 Share Posted May 14, 2005 Sorry to jump in here, but my supe has had a similar problem, i put the decat on and ....wow.....more smoke that a diesel!! reallly bad. now, went to toyota and they said, valve stem seals. Ppl on here have said, turbo seals and valve stem seals. Anyways, the car was that bad i wouldnt drive it, was embarrasing. So, as a quick solution, i put the cat back on, and voila, absolutely no smoke whatsoever . So this to me points to the turbo seals as the cats have put some back pressure back in the exhaust system? Whats this with the piston rings? my car has done a similar amount of mileage and is also a uk spec, so will prob b the same prob as Scoboblio's mate is experiencing. Performace wise, its a rocket, so turbos are defo working like they should. Not that ive been in another supe b4, but i left a evo5 dead the other day Am i right in saying that Scoboblio's mates soop was the black uk 6 that was advertised on ebay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbeh Posted May 14, 2005 Share Posted May 14, 2005 What kind of smoke is it? Black smoke? If thats the case it sounds like overfuelling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Posted May 14, 2005 Share Posted May 14, 2005 no it was blue smoke, burnt oil, smelt like it too. was that bad i couldnt see the car behind me . but now, with the addition of the cat agin, its gone. only a temp solution i know, but neeeded to get to work etc. saving for blowers and fitting now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted May 14, 2005 Share Posted May 14, 2005 lower exh backpressure normally leads tired turbos into smoking, yes. But it is well documented that this engine's stem seals go south after around 100K miles, so that cause cannot be ruled out either. Mine's the same --- after the full decat, *cough* *cough* *stinkola* With the first cat in place it was sweet as a nut... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoboblio Posted May 14, 2005 Author Share Posted May 14, 2005 He did say that the smoking only became noticeable when the cats were taken out... he's got the option of putting the stock exhaust back in to try and regain some back pressure. A compression test sounds like an idea, could turn out to be worse than just the turbos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrRalphMan Posted May 14, 2005 Share Posted May 14, 2005 Hi to everyone, I've bitten the bullet and payed my dues. I'm Scoboblio's mate and am in two minds. 1. (the biggest part).. I want this car. But not at any cost. 2. Worried it's a dog and going to cost big time. Some more info for you guys.. MPryde was right, it was the one on EBAY He's had compression tests done, and they are fine. I haven't heard back yet about the colour of the smoke. Here is an extract from the EBAY item. Now for the bad point ,since i changed the exhaust the car has started to smoke when you first start up & when you blip the throttle when it's warm .When you drive the car it does not smoke at all , I have had it to toyota & they said it was the valve seals that are worn & it will cost £400 - £600 to sort it .PLEASE NOTE the car has lost no power due to this problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbeh Posted May 14, 2005 Share Posted May 14, 2005 Im sure you can pick up some used UK turbos on here for a few hundred quid. There was a guy selling a set recently in the For Sale forum. if not you could get your current ones rebuilt or maybe hybrid'd Or of course go the Single route. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrRalphMan Posted May 15, 2005 Share Posted May 15, 2005 Thanks for everybodies help. Speaking to Scoboblio yesterday kinda put my mind at ease, so ta for that... Will find out the colour of the smoke... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrRalphMan Posted May 16, 2005 Share Posted May 16, 2005 Hi all, Just got a response from the seller and the smoke if grey to off blue in colour. I don't know if this helps, but if anyone could advise.. that would be great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonball Posted May 16, 2005 Share Posted May 16, 2005 How much are you paying for this? IMHO walk away m8 unles an absolute bargain etc! If it is a real bargain then you are already sold on it - so get it and see what you have! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustGav Posted May 16, 2005 Share Posted May 16, 2005 Well, I've got a spare set of VVTi turbos which will fit onto a non-vvti, please note these aren't UK steel turbos, but rather ceramic j-spec ones. low mileage as well.. Gav Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrRalphMan Posted May 16, 2005 Share Posted May 16, 2005 Paul, I'm paying just over £7K for it. Would you say that's a enough of a bargin? You're right, after a year of looking on and off, I do want it.. Just not at any price. Paul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted May 16, 2005 Share Posted May 16, 2005 I paid less for a late UK car mate and the turbos are fine. So it pays to haggle These are high mileage cars remember that will need expensive bits sooner rather than later. Everything mechanical on mine is fine actually, and I know that the mileage is real (something only the original importer knows when it comes to JSpecs --- and only those from official Jap auctions at that) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted May 16, 2005 Share Posted May 16, 2005 Paul, I'm paying just over £7K for it. Would you say that's a enough of a bargin? You're right, after a year of looking on and off, I do want it.. Just not at any price. Paul. I saw that one for sale on ebay and straight away thought it was probably the turbo seals and not the valve stems (although these too could be leaking a bit by now, it is after all quite a few years old). Personally I don't think the price is too bad especially if the rest of the car is in good to above good condition, certainly looked like a nice clean car to me. The guy had good feedback and was at least open about what he thought the problem was. As a few poeple have said you shoud be able to get a set of turbos secondhand for a pretty decent price or you could just get the ones on it either re-con'd or hybrided (if that's the word) either of which Turbo Technics will do for you and you'll get a warranty too. I too will have a set for sale shortly (U.k ones too) but not untill they're taken off their current engine so as I can vouch for their condition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrRalphMan Posted May 25, 2005 Share Posted May 25, 2005 Okay, time for an update. The bloke has had the turbos off the car and the seals are definatly worn. One not so bad, the other a bit worse. He did try to put the first cat back in, but it didn't stop the smoking. He has been quoted £1100 + VAT each on the Turbos, without the fitting. Also all the UK Turb's have gone from the Supra Parts for sale section, so no joy there. Anyone got any constructive ideas? I'm down in deepest Essex, well Billericay so anyone know of anyone close that could help? Thanks all. Paul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted May 26, 2005 Share Posted May 26, 2005 ...He has been quoted £1100 + VAT each on the Turbos, without the fitting. ... what I'd do is: add up the cost in 'materials' to change both turbos. (remember gaskets etc) add labour costs. Substract the above figure from the expected resale value of the high-mileage vehicle *after* the turbos are fixed. THEN decide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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