Adam Kindness Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 terry, or any vortex dude... With a T67 based kit (your kit for 2,850) could you help me with the following... Injectors? - what cc would you recommend, baring in mind scope for upgrading. ECU? What internal engine precautions would you suggest? stronger rod bolts, steel headgasket etc etc Clutch/flywheel?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_bramley Posted January 20, 2005 Author Share Posted January 20, 2005 Chris, singles are a whole different league mate, honestly. Bag a ride in one. Been in a few single cars, driven a coupla singles (not quite this powerful though) - I know it's very different. Not saying I'd be a drag star straight off but I'm not totally oblivious is what I mean. Sound familiar Terry/ Frank !!!!!! Trust me you cant / wont handle the power !!!!it will bite you in the asss at any given moment and not allways when you are expecting it !!!! I'm willing to give it a try... and I'm a careful bunny with my car. And hey, surprises are part of the fun! (as long as you recover!) Dude, pm'd ya. Either way fellas I'm trying to get a good turbo setup that will allow me to drop the bar and drive it normally but have the potential for awesome performance shuold I need it... wouldn't a big one make sense in that instance? Hehehe dont' worry I am not the kind of person to floor it round corners Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorin Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 If you want to be able to drive the car around every day if required then I wouldn't go any higher than T71, and even then I think thats possibly too much. It's no good having a massive turbo that doesn't make full boost until 5500 on a road car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 Either way fellas I'm trying to get a good turbo setup that will allow me to drop the bar and drive it normally but have the potential for awesome performance shuold I need it... wouldn't a big one make sense in that instance? Hehehe dont' worry I am not the kind of person to floor it round corners I can see where you are coming from But I think you are looking for the Mecca of turbos on this one . If you want a quick 0-60 you need a smalish quick spooling turbo... you say you want to wind the boost up and have masses of power well the smalish Turbo can only go so far and what is masses of power in your eyes?. To get MASS power you need a BIG turbo and as such you incur more lag which then is a mare down low. This is where compromise comes in 61's to 67's IMHO are the best all round Road useable turbos. They spool very well and the 67 can put out circa 550 fwhp .DBB 61 will spool a little earlier. 71 is also not that bad and can produce big power also with a tad more lag (not a mass amout but its there). Single turbod supras are explosive when they come on power and you have to pay attention. The higher up the size turbo range you go the harder they hit when they come on song. So I would say sit down and have a think of what is more important to you having a Very rapid street car or having a car that can pull atomic power levels but can be hard to live with on a day to day basis. If you are not worried about lag go for your life and fit the biggest thing you can get on there ...BUT be warned it won't come cheap as you will need supporting mods to take this power. If you want a road car with gusto look into the 61 or even the 67 . Many people on this BBS have this set up so i will let them tel you about it. You even have the choice of a 61 DBB which come on wery hard and i would be more than happy with a car and that set up for the road. To conclude there is and probs wont be for a while to come a turbo that can spool real quick i.e 1800rpm mark and flow enough to take you to 900bhp . HTH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 IMO you are going about things backwards. Upgrade the engine first, sort out what ECU you want to run, who will map it and how, decide on the transmission system and ratios, the cams and match all to a suitable turbo spec. Choosing the biggest turbo you can find is rarely what you really need. I doubt you will honestly be happy with the power delivery o such a turbo in a road car! Again, IMO, that turbo is TOTALLY unsuited to a road car, or to be put on an engine in anything like stock format. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 Adam,T61 = 550's & T67 = 650's as a minimum, then pump/s and pulsation removed, then a way of controlling it all.. A good stock bottom end is cool, as set of ARP rod bolts would be nice. The important bit is the tuning. No bottom end will survive if badly tuned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Kindness Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 cam setups? still trying to decide whether to 'play' with the white 6sp i have on the way, or get a shitty exterior condition TT auto to play with..... and your 'street fighter kit' - tell me abit more about that. My email is [email protected] if you want to use that seeing auto's are faster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 Auto are quicker on the drag strip. Cams are only really worth Changing if you have a raised rev limit. Matt's car with stock cams did just fine on the dyno. I know Chis saw some improvement with cams, but the also delay spool. For a street car, the 256/264 combo I used in the Purple car was perfect, but that rev'd to 8k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Kindness Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 what internals would need uprating, bar rod bolts? Would stock rods and valve gear be ok at that limit? Cant even remember what the stock rev limit is now LOL, its been about a year and a half since i sold the silver one hehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 Stock rev limit is 6850rpm. Chris - Seems to me you've got your heart set on the biggest turbo you can strap on If that's the case, then do it! You might like it, you might hate it, but you'll have found out for yourself. Ok, it'll cost but hey, what else is money for We've given our opinions on streetable turbos with excellent power capabilities (especially as you can wind them up even more on race fuel for special occasions), so you make your choice based on those opinions and your own wants and needs. Get it fitted already -Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_bramley Posted January 21, 2005 Author Share Posted January 21, 2005 thanks all for your input, I was looking for a wide range of opinions and have found it I think what I might compromise with is a t67dbb or something approximate, which should give me low enough lag and high enough top end to blast most road cars and get the kind of fun I want on optimax. I want to delimit my revs, but not shift them higher (yet), and the major engine work I will do in time to come, as it will then nicely compliment the turbo and so on. So, plan of action - t67ish, 650 injectors run with dual lines, and and ecu to map it all. THEN I shall be happy, after the brighton boys have got it running perfectly well, for a year or so. Y'all know the improvement bug will bit again tho. let's spice it all up a bit... debate is over piggyback ecus and full replacements. my mate swears by his apexi powerfc and says it took a mere hour or so to fully set up, but I have the hks evc 5 and fuel cut defencer installed. I want to install the best ecu I can to properly take advantage of the enhancements you all suggest, but I don't want to get something that won't do the job... OR something too unnecessary (I'm told the HKS FCON V PRO is ott and hard to set up, for eg). Ideas? if the brain ain't proper the rest won't put out 100% is my thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorin Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 I want to install the best ecu I can to properly take advantage of the enhancements you all suggest, but I don't want to get something that won't do the job... If you want the best then something like the MOTEC M800, they don't come cheap though. I'm not convinced on the AEM from what I've heard, I just don't think they're mature enough. You could go for the cheaper option and get the Greddy emanage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_bramley Posted January 21, 2005 Author Share Posted January 21, 2005 yeah Dude recommended that but I've found the apexi powerfc with commander for £650 odd, and am bloody tempted. I have a choice so far - emanage piggy back for a coupla hunnerd or powerfc for 2-3 times the price.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Usmann A Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 It all depends on hwo you drive the car, and whether you like motorway pulls to quick burst of acceleration. But, IMO, I think that the LAG on this board is overrated, and I wouldnt even bother with DBB under 74mm of turbo. remember though, that the US has much better fuel than we do. Our Optimax here is 88MON,98 RON, now that equivelant(sp) to the US rating would be 88+98/2= 93RON, that is thier rating of fuel. AEM works full stop. AEM autos work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_bramley Posted January 21, 2005 Author Share Posted January 21, 2005 I'm likely to drive the car differently in different situations, hence the powerfc thought - you can remap to different presets on the fly. one for racing one for economy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitelightning Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 WL was a T88 conversion and very useable on the roads. But I must admit I am looking forward to trying out these BL turbos in Taz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Usmann A Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 I'm likely to drive the car differently in different situations, hence the powerfc thought - you can remap to different presets on the fly. one for racing one for economy Yes, agreed the FC is one of the most simple, to the point EMS available. Speed density is the way to go ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 The Power FC & Commander is pretty limited unless you can get the full software. Disagree with Lag being over rated. Maybe on a motorway/A road, but around town or in lower gears it is a proper PITA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_bramley Posted January 21, 2005 Author Share Posted January 21, 2005 Right, I'll post a new thread in trade, but... anyone got a cheap full powerfc + commander going? Or an AEM. LAG? Not familiar... I will be doing motorway as well as round town, hence I wanted something that would be programmable to preset maps to cover most eventualities... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 I wouldnt even bother with DBB under 74mm of turbo. Ok lag is relative to everyones sences. What one person could live with another could not ...But why not bother with DBB under a 74mm? does not having full boost at 3K not apeal on a 61? AKA Terry's new car Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_bramley Posted January 21, 2005 Author Share Posted January 21, 2005 yes good call, sorry wasn't concentrating. Lag. as in, spool up. so can anyone pinpoint the difference tween a dbb and non dbb turbo? What would the perf difference be on a t74dbb v a t74? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason m Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 I am considering going down this route next year - not sure yet, but need to change my ic as its looking a little old. Question I guess for Terry, Mig et al is would an uprated SMIC ie Chris Wilson's do the job with a 61 or 67 turbo and do bl do the hard pipes to link up ? Very helpful thread BTW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tDR Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 RE: The Power FC ECU - excellent choice as lets face it, most peope aren't going to map it themselves and the hand commander is more than enough to be able to tweak on your own / use for monitoring. For the J spec TT's you need the AP Engineering special Power FC (only for manuals afaik) and my preference would be the drag variant as it has ignition cut rev limiting and has a build boost on the start line type function over the normal AP Engineering special model. Cheers, Brian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 If you run a turbo smack in the middle of its efficiency island, as opposed to overworking the stock ones or hybrids, then the intercooling needs are actually less, as the turbo is producing cooler, denser air as a direct result of its running efficiently, so you may well not need any fancy I/C measures. My stock mount set up works a lot more efficiently than even a brand new Toyota stock mount by dint of a more efficient core and more tubes. I would say that's all you need, with the added bonus of no loss of water radiator ducting, or masking by use of a front mount I/C. Your air con will also work correctly, a front mount severely reduces a/c efficiency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason m Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 If you run a turbo smack in the middle of its efficiency island, as opposed to overworking the stock ones or hybrids, then the intercooling needs are actually less, as the turbo is producing cooler, denser air as a direct result of its running efficiently, so you may well not need any fancy I/C measures. My stock mount set up works a lot more efficiently than even a brand new Toyota stock mount by dint of a more efficient core and more tubes. I would say that's all you need, with the added bonus of no loss of water radiator ducting, or masking by use of a front mount I/C. Your air con will also work correctly, a front mount severely reduces a/c efficiency. you have e-mail (again) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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