PhilMorrison Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 It is a breather isn't it? The one at the back of the cylinderhead between the rocker covers that points directly up? Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainchaos Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 sure the one your on about connects to the heater matrix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilMorrison Posted January 10, 2008 Author Share Posted January 10, 2008 That's what I originally thought it would be, but I've been told by someone that it's a breather. It did seem a strange place for a breather to be honest. So okay, if it's a water feed to the heater matrix, is it used as part of the water flow through the engine? or can it be blocked? If it can't be blocked, where must it return to? Sorry for all the questions, Obviously I don't have a car or complete engine to reference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainchaos Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 what do you want to block this for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilMorrison Posted January 10, 2008 Author Share Posted January 10, 2008 I don't have heaters, and the engine is bare essentials only.. I don't mind looping it back if I have to do that to retain flow through the engine, but on some engines you can block stuff like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ark Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Fire her up, see what spills out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilMorrison Posted January 10, 2008 Author Share Posted January 10, 2008 That's a possibility if it comes down to it. I'd prefer to know now so I can get the parts I need though, as I'm on a bit of a hectic schedule as it is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tooquicktostop Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 My heater matrix was bypassed so it is possible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 I'm pretty certain the CJ manuals have a complete diagram showing water and oil flow paths........ I could try and pop a picture up later. I can't think off the top of my head where the return pipe from the heater matrix goes as you should have another 'loose end' somewhere so to speak! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilMorrison Posted January 10, 2008 Author Share Posted January 10, 2008 My heater matrix was bypassed so it is possible Do you know how it was bypassed? I'm pretty certain the CJ manuals have a complete diagram showing water and oil flow paths........ I could try and pop a picture up later. I can't think off the top of my head where the return pipe from the heater matrix goes as you should have another 'loose end' somewhere so to speak! There's usually a water pipe with a load of inputs on it that I've got rid of. I imagine it would be one of those, but if you can get me a picture to confirm, that would be absolutely awesome. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustGav Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 There was a discussion last year regarding the heater matrix. I'm sticking my head out here and saying don't bypass it with a joiner, but rather block the two pipes that would run the matrix. This will ensure that water flows through the head properly rather than taking the easier path with the thicker matrix pipes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Here's a diagram and a picture of the main pipework that goes around the block. I think in the picture is how it is in place if viewing from the front of the car. The bottom joint attaching to the rear fo the water pump and going around the block to near the oil filter/cooler area. The left most pipe is labelled as the 'from heater' pipe......... if the pics are too small i can always email the full size ones direct to you, hope it helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilMorrison Posted January 10, 2008 Author Share Posted January 10, 2008 I'm sticking my head out here and saying don't bypass it with a joiner, but rather block the two pipes that would run the matrix. This will ensure that water flows through the head properly rather than taking the easier path with the thicker matrix pipes. Very interesting. Has anyone actually tried blocking it? As you say, it could increase flow to the bit's that matter, but it could also increase the pressure enough to damage something I guess. Here's a diagram and a picture of the main pipework that goes around the block. I think in the picture is how it is in place if viewing from the front of the car. The bottom joint attaching to the rear fo the water pump and going around the block to near the oil filter/cooler area. The left most pipe is labelled as the 'from heater' pipe......... if the pics are too small i can always email the full size ones direct to you, hope it helps Superb Thanks very much, it makes alot more sense now As above, I'd still prefer to block it if it's an option, but if I have to fabricate something, I'd probably look at just having a pipe from that outlet at the top of the head, straight to the top rad pipe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 The breathers are on either side of the engine, one normally goes back into the inlet after the air filter before the turbo and the other has a one way valve going into the inlet manifold. As for by passing the heater matrix, mine has had a small joiner pipe in it since my matrix developed a leak a long long time ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminator Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Flow of water inside the head is critical. The flow rate inside the head will have been designed, at considerable expense, to include all componants. If the heater is removed it should be replaced with a restriction equal to the restrictioin of the heater matrix in the system. Anything that could alter the designed flow could result in uneven cooling, hot spots and possible damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean1933 Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Sounds like the heater matrix pipe but a pic would clear this up. If it is the matrix feed then its fine to just join it upto the matrix return as Wez said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Very interesting. Has anyone actually tried blocking it? As you say, it could increase flow to the bit's that matter, but it could also increase the pressure enough to damage something I guess. Just so you know the background to Gav's post, we had 2 or 3 people report head gasket failures last year (almost unheard of on the 2JZ-GTE), the cars concerned all had heater matrix bypasses done. I think when this was discussed last the consensus was to bypass the heater matirx but add a large restriction (to replicate the restriction the heater matrix causes) in the form of a much smaller diameter pipe to join to the matrix feed and return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilMorrison Posted January 10, 2008 Author Share Posted January 10, 2008 Flow of water inside the head is critical. The flow rate inside the head will have been designed, at considerable expense, to include all componants. If the heater is removed it should be replaced with a restriction equal to the restrictioin of the heater matrix in the system. Anything that could alter the designed flow could result in uneven cooling, hot spots and possible damage. Just so you know the background to Gav's post, we had 2 or 3 people report head gasket failures last year (almost unheard of on the 2JZ-GTE), the cars concerned all had heater matrix bypasses done. I think when this was discussed last the consensus was to bypass the heater matirx but add a large restriction (to replicate the restriction the heater matrix causes) in the form of a much smaller diameter pipe to join to the matrix feed and return. Very sound advice guys thank you . As I don't have any return pipework to work with, I'll be fabricating from scratch, so I guess the next question is, where should I send the water back to? Top rad pipe, or pre thermostat? and then the next question, what size restriction should I make? I guess as long as it stll flows, it can be pretty small.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Just so you know the background to Gav's post, we had 2 or 3 people report head gasket failures last year (almost unheard of on the 2JZ-GTE), the cars concerned all had heater matrix bypasses done. I think when this was discussed last the consensus was to bypass the heater matirx but add a large restriction (to replicate the restriction the heater matrix causes) in the form of a much smaller diameter pipe to join to the matrix feed and return. Just to add my bypass is small copper household rad piping in a 180deg formation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminator Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Just to add my bypass is small copper household rad piping in a 180deg formation. Therefore adding a restriction, resulting in some sort of back pressure, hopefully similar to the matrix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Therefore adding a restriction, resulting in some sort of back pressure, hopefully similar to the matrix. Hopefully I may have a pic somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilMorrison Posted January 10, 2008 Author Share Posted January 10, 2008 That would be brilliant. How long have you been sucessfully running this restricted bypass in place of the matrix? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Can just see it on the left, no laughing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 As I don't have any return pipework to work with, I'll be fabricating from scratch, so I guess the next question is, where should I send the water back to? Top rad pipe, or pre thermostat? and then the next question, what size restriction should I make? I guess as long as it stll flows, it can be pretty small.. The feed is the one from the back of the block, the return should go directly back to the water pump (see attached pic). no 1. is the part that connects to the heater return (normally has a vertical pipe attached that routes up and behind the block) no 2. is the pipe that has the return from the oil filter cooler (goes all the way behind the block) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Just found this pic which shows the vertical pipe I mentioned earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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