Septic

Ahaha lol fair-does. You are entitled to your belief. I apologise if I sound preachy or trying to shove my religious beliefs down your throats. Because of the way I believe in my faith with such conviction I may sound overly assertive. Just to clarify: “Let there be no compulsion in religion.” (Quran 2:256) Ah penguin- that's all good. I'll be sure to have a read.

Penguin....really?An idiot's guide to Islam?? Sigh...I don't understand how that would work in any real constructive basis. In any case, I'll read that link carefully. By the way, I joined this forum to learn about Supras and now embroiled in a religious thread. Please remember: I AM NOT A PREACHER!!! I'm worried you guys are just gonna see me as "that fundamentalist muslim guy". Trust me, I want a Supra more than anyone! 2JZGTE only though....N/A are for pu55ies- and I think that's a fact we can all agree on. Right?

Well I actually used to have a very agnostic/atheist way of thinking. I used to believe that all religion was man-made and used as a form of control so something made me change my mind. To be honest, I wasn't and still am not persuaded by promises of bounties in heaven etc. In Islam, if I don't really come from a practising family so for me- the persuasion came not only in the form of scientific evidences but also the message of the scripture. Needless to say, its an on-going process. It is every Muslim's duty to seek knowledge (Hidayat being the Qur'anic word) In terms of some scientific evidences as to God's existence, this is a good (albeit basic) video: Also, it was/is, a case of me employing logic that confirms in my mind that Islam is the truth. The completely unrelenting adherence for proof and forward thinking as well as the numerous tests to question the validity of the Qur'an- suggested in the Qur'an itself, represent an extremely persuasive argument. For example, observe the falsification test in the Qur'an: To be honest, its an amalgamation of several factors that compels me with an unflinching conviction in my faith- even the evidence of design argument, logic and most importantly the message. Its not simply hopelessly reciprocal as in "I believe because I believe" but a case of I believe because I perceive to the best of my judgement. I hope that makes sense. I am still a relative newcomer to Islam- it wasn't too long ago that I was of the aforementioned conflicting view. What about you Jas? What is your reasoning/evidence? Its finally great to get a proper understanding of the Sikh faith. I'm gonna have a go at my Sikh mates who only gave me sweeping statements about their faith along the lines of "yeah its basically like Islam and Hinduism mixed together". I hope you can understand my prior, incorrect and ignorant assumption now. Apologies again for that.

Live a "full life" (what is a full-life? Its interpretation can vary from person to person) "learning and experiencing everything that the world has to offer" And then unlearning it all when you die. All those experiences and knowledge gained but ultimately lost. Isn't this futile? Am I really just a goldfish with a penis?

Again I agree with the above to an extent but I'm not really talking about the impact belief/non-belief would have on the world. I'm arguing that God-consciousness adds a whole superior and objective level in terms of moral values and the quality of emotional weight. This video-debate is really interesting and echoes both agnostic and believers views: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63Hr1_LB3Io Wsalam penguin.

Oh my apologies. I always thought that was the case because that's what my Sikh friends tell me!! I honestly thought that was regarded as fact by the Sikh community so was ignorant in my statement. Like I said....I know very little of Sikhism. I'm off to smack my mates

Why?? Why do this? It just hurts to see this happen.

Ah can I join this? My gamertag: SEPTIC360. I have a R3 class Supra which I can unmodify to A600 I guess.

I agree that In regards to this : I agree with you with the above but I was referring to the quantitative value of those emotions/morals. If a supreme being exists and has commanded its creation on the value of such emotions/feelings/morality then surely it is then that the latter qualities have most weight. Otherwise, negating the existence of the aforementioned creator- the value of such emotions is always going to be questionable and differing.

No point- its just I don't know much about the Sikh scripture apart from the fact that it is an amalgamation of the Islamic and Hindu faith. The similarity was very interesting that's all.

I really need to get this on my 360. I played this on my PC and was hooked! Unfortunately the PC really struggled to handle the game due to over-heating etc. This game is brilliant!

Haha, that made me LOL irl.

Wow that is almost exactly the same as the KEY verse describing God in the Qur'an. Chapter 112, Surah al-Ikhlas: Say: He is Allah, the One and Only! Allah, the Eternal, Absolute; He begetteth not nor is He begotten. And there is none like unto Him.

I am aware of the Holy Trinity but am somewhat confused by the concept. If I assume correctly, mainstream Christian belief denotes that: 1. Jesus is God 2. Jesus is the Son of God 3. Jesus is the son of Mary So Mary (p.b.u.h) gave birth to God? You state that yet you state He is the same as God yet he is the intermediary sent by God? This verse from the Bible seems to strike at the heart of the belief in the Trinity: John 5:30: I always wanted to know what the Christian belief in regards to the above was. Never did I imagine I would have learnt the answer on a Supra forum mind you By the way, I do believe in Jesus Christ (p.b.u.h) but not in the same context. I mean no offence. For all you atheists/ non-believers in God: IF you believe when you die, you just die- then what is the difference between a serial rapist and charity worker? Essentially you end up the same way- worm food? Isn't the weight of feelings such as love and caring greatly diminished if you believe the above? Feelings like compassion and love- these are then just mere bi-products of physical reactions in the brain. Thus, the belief that Hitler was bad is just a belief brought about by mere common consensus- someone could then well be within reason to believe he was a good person (btw I consider him evil before you brand me a NAzi!). I am not saying that atheists have no moral beliefs by the way!

But what if I believe in God, and even in Jesus Christ (p.b.u.h) but as a messenger of God as opposed to the son of God. What if I pray 5 times a day, give charity, am extremely God-conscious, fast for a month and declare that there is none worthy of worship except God? I still go to hell because I don't submit myself to the belief that Jesus is the son of God? Becuase I disagree with the belief that he died for our sins I go to hell? Even though I have the utmost respect for him? But is it true? Will I go to hell? I never did tan very well (not taking the mick btw)

"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." Albert Einstein, "Science, Philosophy and Religion: a Symposium", 1941 US (German-born) physicist (1879 - 1955) A quote from someone, I think we can all agree on, with excellent intellectual abilities. Tbourner- I know you were generalising and I agree with you on the point.

I agree with Soop and the above. We shouldn't resort to ridiculing him, especially on a matter such as this but CJ's correct in stating that this is an open forum and we have a right to critically analyse any claims he is making. Its good to learn about each other's beliefs. On that note- I just want to ask Alex- What if I believe in God but not in Jesus Christ (p.b.u.h) as a son of God or as god- will I go to hell? I ask this because my driving instructor was christian and he expressly told me that I was going to hell! My first thoughts were how the hell do you know?!! (no pun intended). I thought I was a nice person

Watch this. There are loads of different Stigs man. I wouldn't be surprised if Tiff was just one particular Stig for a while

I can't explain how angry this thread has made me. Challenge the section59 and complain against the officer if you can. The horn is there on the car for a reason. YOu used it in a situation where it was genuinely needed. Please challenge this....do it for me!!

Without an entrenched, objective, infallible and supreme authority, we derive our whole system of morality and justice from what Tannhauser has correctly analysed as mere physical events- (electrical signals in our brain). Thus, to believe in evil you have to actually believe in God in the first place. Simply via acknowledging this fact, a religious view with the belief that GOd exists is far superior to the aforementioned belief (a bi-product of scientific determinism so to speak). Obviously- the latter view is redundant if God doesn't exist- but that's a whole different debate entirely. Essentially, if you don't believe in GOd then the questions of crime, punishment and free will always be subject to change because we know all too well, society's values are always in a state of flux and never static (unless dictated by faith). Brilliant thread by the way Tannhauser- and excellent first post. Great points by all.

Probably locals.

Hehe yeah I should have guessed no one would turn up but people seemed really exited about turning up so I thought a few would turn up at least (more than 5!).

Yeah I'll deffo turn up to the re-organised one. Still...got a beating from my mates- whom I dragged along with me

Guys- I've just come back from Ace and no one was there!! Apparently only about 5 cars turned up and they all left at 8pm. So disappointed. I hope there's another one soon.

Guys it is really bad down here. I'm quite close to Ace Café and the roads are horrendous at the moment. Just be very careful if you guys still intend to come down. I'm going