As an idea of the effects, I work at a 500 million turnover company, they have orders till end feb and that's it at the moment, they are laying off 15% globally and are considering 3 day week, 4 day week or timed close down, the ripples from any of that through the suppliers, the shops where we spend the money, the reduction in transport etc. will be immense. But, it's always the same, america coughs, we catch a cold, I'll be interested to see what happens at the start of the new year, HSBC have said they will lend up to 20% more from then. If the other banks do the same will that get people moving house again? Or are people going to batten down the hatches and try and pay off their debts?