BROARDSIDE Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 Hey all i wonder if anyone can help i have just finished my na-t install now i have started the car without making any adjustments to my safcII, and the car is running very rich black smoke out the exhaust and runs very lumpy on tickover. now is this to be expected as i have not made any adjustments to the safcII. . . after 1000 to 1500 rmp the lumpyness goes and the car is very responsive i assume i have to adjust the safc II to compensate for the fact i have got larger injectors (440cc) on tickover or am i missing the point if you can please help also i have got a wideband O2 sensor installed i have got to recalibrate it and then i can get some readings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustGav Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 Yes, you will need to adjust for the larger injectors.... But an SAFC on its own will not get past the positive pressure that will be going in when the turbo has spooled up... Gav Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BROARDSIDE Posted August 1, 2005 Author Share Posted August 1, 2005 who knows the most about this sort of fault finding as it could be lambder sensor/vacume pipes please excuse my stupidity if anyone would mind i would love to have a chat to someone very knowledgable if so can someone pm me your number please i am desperate for ideias Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BROARDSIDE Posted August 1, 2005 Author Share Posted August 1, 2005 hey tdaxgav thanks for responding so quick is it ok if i call you at somepoint i need somone with brains i can pick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustGav Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 by all means... I'm no guru with these things, but I've certainly learnt a lot from my buildm, and electronics are my thing anyway... Gav Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 What ecu have you put in it? What fuel pressure reg? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustGav Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 From what I have gathered chatting on the phone to broadside, standard non-turbo ECU with a standard fuel system apart from 440cc injectors as opposed to the 370cc units.. Gav Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 Doomed to failure then. Needs a boost sensitive FPR and an ecu that is mapped for a pressure charged engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 [thread=41381]Deja-Vu[/thread] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 Can't really add anything onto what I said in that "Deja-Vu" link Didn't think about the boost sensitive regulator though, good point. Interesting definition of "complete" -Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 Oh no, I have got something to add, after scoping out Digsy's engine properly, the NA fuel system is wholly different with top feed injectors! one wonders what 400's have been installed, as the side feed j-spec ones won't fit, that's for sure. -Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 Oh no, I have got something to add, after scoping out Digsy's engine properly, the NA fuel system is wholly different with top feed injectors! one wonders what 400's have been installed, as the side feed j-spec ones won't fit, that's for sure. -Ian THIS BL includes 440cc injectors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BROARDSIDE Posted August 1, 2005 Author Share Posted August 1, 2005 Can't really add anything onto what I said in that "Deja-Vu" link Didn't think about the boost sensitive regulator though, good point. Interesting definition of "complete" -Ian ian c the definition of complete is simple... as i say the install of the kit that i have is complete. now the car as i have explained is running, but has a problem on tickover, other than that it is realy good progress in my eyes. the problems could be as you say due to not having boost sensitive regulator or something as simple as a vac line put in the wrong place ? or lambder sensor have you done an na-t conversion ian if you have i would be interested in picking your brains (i spoke to tdaxgav today and he was so helpfull it was quite impressive ) p.s nic "Deja-Vu" sorry about having asked similar questions as before. but before the questions were theory and now the results i have are fact and i have to try and resolve them here in. . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustGav Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 When I was speaking to broadside,one of the ideas I had was.... Since the existing ECU does not know about positive boost this will require some electronics to compensate... Something like an emanage should be able to run a closed loop operation and provide the extra fueling required from a fuel map, using the greddy sensor to map according to pressure. An airflow output could be used to send a value to the ecu a value correct enough to keep it stable... Just a thought, I could be way off base with it as well... But all credit to someone who is actually doing it, unlike me who chickened out when he got a VVTi engine.... Gav Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BROARDSIDE Posted August 1, 2005 Author Share Posted August 1, 2005 thanks tdaxgav that sounds like an awesome ideia i appreciate some backp i am realy out on a limb here lol i have just spoken to the guys i got the kit from, and he said the same as chris i could get a boost sensitive regulator the reduce the fuel on tickover, and with boost pressure it will increase more boost more fuel awesome a mechanical basis i understand... i may then be able to tidy the rest up with my safcII worth a thought (cheers chris ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustGav Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 The electronic weapons of choice over in the US appear to be an SAFC and a VPC... Problem is, the VPC is not made any more, HOWEVER you might be able to find one with a chip to suit your injectors... However the emanage ultimate is actually slightly better than the SAFC/VPC configuration... I would shell out the extra cash for the emanage ultimate, which will give you the ability to inject fuel based on the positive boost pressure... Sorry to say it guys, but everyone is negative regarding this...fair enough there may be some issues with it... but how do you reckon the first single installation went... Isn't half the point here to help when you can rather than just putting it down as a silly idea? FSE's are cheap enough, altho they aren't the most ideal solution from what I have been informed since they do fall apart over time... Gav Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 Just don't want to see another engine go bang, which it WILL without proper control over timing and fuelling. Only way i would contemplate an N/A to single turbo conversion is with a fully mappable standalone ECU. Or just convert to TT sopec using stock parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustGav Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 Chris... sussssshhh... I've told already told him I've got a spare NA engine in the workshop.... *grin* Just kidding dude.... I do agree with you on that a standalone solution is the best, however I reckon other things come into play before that... Personally I would love to get rid of my emanage, and go completely standalone on my VVTi, but not for what it costs... Signal fudgers aren't the best answer, but they are a possible solution provided they aren't being asked to do too much... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 Sorry to say it guys, but everyone is negative regarding this...fair enough there may be some issues with it... but how do you reckon the first single installation went... Isn't half the point here to help when you can rather than just putting it down as a silly idea? I think we're just trying to be realistic, quite a few members have expressed concern about the install and lack of proper engine management. Yes a lot of the comments are negative, but I believe we are all TRYING to help Broadside avoid blowing his engine. Would even the E-manage Ultimate be able to cope with fudging the NA ECU to be able to safely run the turbo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitesupraboy2 Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 if no one is sure on how to control fuel / run the turbo safely. Just get on supraforums and read the NA-T threads. its been done so many times in the US that there will be very helpful information either that or PM someone on supraforums who has a NA-T and ask what they are using Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BROARDSIDE Posted August 2, 2005 Author Share Posted August 2, 2005 thanks again to some of you chaps i have ordered a fse valve today that should be here tomoz . . and ill give that a go . . that with a bit of luck will reduce the fuel enough on tickover to be able to pull the rest in with the safcII thats the theory i dont want to go for a full ecu change i cannot be dealing with the mapping side of things. . at this stage i just want to keep things simple and get the car running well on tickover thats the plan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BROARDSIDE Posted August 2, 2005 Author Share Posted August 2, 2005 thanks supraboy i have been looking at the american site they are helpfull guys out the loads of ideias Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BROARDSIDE Posted August 2, 2005 Author Share Posted August 2, 2005 oh and i just want to mention. . . the na-t conversion is nothing its simple in comparison to getting the bolt out of the crank pully what a shit job that took me 6 hours i would not recomend it lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 getting the bolt out of the crank pully what a shit job that took me 6 hours Yeah it's a pain on a Auto. Using the starter motor to crack the bolt has worked well for me both time I've had to remove the crank pulley. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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