Aeromotive FPR or FSE?

If we are talking about a JSpec here.

Is it fair to conclude that the Aeromotive fuel pressure regulator is best used if you have fitted bigger injectors and the FSE is best used for a BPU car with stock 440cc injectors?

Cheers

Justin

Something along those lines

Dude:flame Dev

Succinctly put!

I believe that the FSE is actually brilliant for the stock Jap (or UK)Spec car - proven in practice and on the dyno run

However whether it adds another variable and confuses the tuning process for higher BPU cars I dont know

The fact that it reverts to a normal FPR at postive boost suggests it shouldn't - but in practice on my machine the fuelling is just too good with one fitted!!

(strange enough this idea of the extra variable was something that Nathan mooted many moons ago - although he did not [subsequently dyno proven wrongly] think the FSE a good thing)

I presume the aeromotive is adjustable but why therfore it is better than stock no doubt will be explained

However the FSE definately does have it's place and is def for anyone with 440's!

Thanks guys just wanted to clarify things from a 'consumers' view as to how far we want to go mod wise and what is best suited.

Cheers for your input Dude oh great Jedi soon to be 9 second master man who fits my hybrids sometime in the future

Originally posted by Paul E

The fact that it reverts to a normal FPR at postive boost suggests it shouldn't - but in practice on my machine the fuelling is just too good with one fitted!!

 

(strange enough this idea of the extra variable was something that Nathan mooted many moons ago - although he did not [subsequently dyno proven wrongly] think the FSE a good thing)

I thought we had this discussion It's 1.7:1 ratio off and on boost, not just off boost.

The dyno test was an FSE valve *and* a walbro fuel pump upgrade at the same time as well. That combination certainly improved the fuelling situation.

-Ian

I thought it was 1:1.7

Here is the:

Previous Discussion

And halfway down this page:

Info about it being 1.7:1

Tadaa The comedy link to Miami Rice's own website doesn't work any more but it was quoted anyway

Just to reiterate, I'm not "dissing" the FSE here (my feelings are known anyway) I'm just making sure people know what it actually does.

-Ian

Originally posted by Terry S

I thought it was 1:1.7

It's 1.7psi fuel pressure to 1psi of manifold pressure.

-Ian

Agreed:innocent:

So Ian what is your educated answer to the original thread question chief? Is the Aeromotive better suited to a Jspec 440cc car than the FSE.

Let's say that the Jspec has already been fitted with an uprated pump in both scenarios.

PS I'm asking because i genuinely don't know not because I want to prove someone wrong.

Originally posted by Ian C

It's 1.7psi fuel pressure to 1psi of manifold pressure.

 

-Ian

No it isn't - in practice on the soop the actual rising rate up to positive boost is only 1:1.17 tested by glencoe

Something to do with the published test on a stock motor rather than one like ours - I dont know - so dont ask me

Anyway - lets not go there - it reverts to a NORMAL FPR as soon as Positive boost is achieved!

The one to which you refer is the racing FSE which is NOT THIS ONE !!

Aarrghhhhhhhhh:p

And there you have both sides FSE themselves say 1.7:1, and a report Paul has seen says 1.17:1. FSE say it's 1.7:1 at all times in all the places I've looked (see links in the other thread I linked to), Paul is convinced that this particular variant reverts back to 1:1 under boost. One of us is going to need 'ing with hard evidence about a few things before they change their mind

Aaaanyway. If you've got an uprated fuel pump, dyno it and check the air fuel ratio. It's probably OK now. If not, fit bigger injectors and get it mapped, or, fit an FSE and see if it makes any difference. And get your fuel pressure checked before and after fitment for idle, vacuum, and on-boost pressure. Just to shut me or Paul up once and for all

All you can do is read through what me, Paul, and others have said in this and the other thread and make your own mind up.

-Ian

PS Paul, Miami GT website still says "PBV (power boost valve) its a rising rate regulator thats adjustable and increases the fuel pressure as manifold pressure increases "

OK so now to conclude then as a consumer is it fair to say that, on Jspec 440 injectors, to get better fuelling all you need is a better pump without an FSE or FPR?

if you stayed on 440cc injectors and installed a aeromotive fpr would it be of use to you. have you got an AFC or anything.

have you uprated your pump. you could always get it checked out at thor as he is the man with supras.

you could go with the injectors that drop in stock rail the vortex sells and blitz do some 550`s that drop straight in too. saves buying a resistor pack too.

give thor a ring

Well, look, the thing is, I don't know of anyone who has only uprated their fuel pump and then checked the fuelling. I can't say one way or the other to you because I don't know and I'm not about to bullshit you. I've already stated my *opinions* on it but I can't wave a dyno sheet at you proving it does nothing/makes things worse/poisons your pet rabbit or whatever. I had an FSE and a j-spec pump and hybrids (a wretched setup really, previous owner, crap tuning company, I knew nothing back then and the dog ate my homework). Bye bye engine. Now I have a Walbro and 550cc injectors, and the fuelling is spot on with an E-Manage in place and tuned.

People have tried UK spec/Walbro pumps *and* FSE valves as an upgrade and have had improvements in fuelling. If you want the cheap safe option I guess this is it but I wouldn't do it for my own reasons. Or you can check your fuelling as it stands now and tell us what changes the uprated pump on it's own has made.

-Ian

i will go for a before and after with just a walbro and 440cc injectors. dont know if it will be worth fitting aeromotive fpr. would it make a difference with not having a boostcontroller or afc. think everybody wants to be safe and try do it the right way.

what are your plans justin?

Originally posted by Justin

OK so now to conclude then as a consumer is it fair to say that, on Jspec 440 injectors, to get better fuelling all you need is a better pump without an FSE or FPR?

You def need a better Pump

You do not need an FSE

Both together are briiliant - dyno proven to give min extra torque, and responsiveness

Originally posted by MONKEYmark

i will go for a before and after with just a walbro and 440cc injectors. dont know if it will be worth fitting aeromotive fpr. would it make a difference with not having a boostcontroller or afc. think everybody wants to be safe and try do it the right way.

 

what are your plans justin?

Well mate, just want to go hybrids and up the boost from 18 psi without worrying about det etc so need to upgrade the fuelling. She's a pretty fast JSpec as she is and want to go up a level.

I've had a Thor dyno already and have all my torque and AFR charts still. I could fit a pump only then do another dyno then fit an fse and do another dyno but as the fse don't cost that much I think I'll just whack it on anyway to avoid one more trip to Thor.

Sad git that I am - I decided to check out the comparison betwen the fuel pressure and boost pressure (well what is a thousand quids worth of DEFI's for?)

I did three reasonable (but brief) runs

Comparison table attached

Summary

For every 0.1 bar of boost up to positive boost we see an increase of an average of 0.17 bar in pressure

(which confirms the 1:7 ratio - and explains where the .17 figure comes from)

When postive boost of 0.3 bar is reached this reverts back to 1:1 increase

In an attempt to get to the bottom of Power Boost Valves, or the FSE valve, once and for all, I contacted Glencoe themselves. Here are my findings.

The Power Boost Valve behaves differently on vacuum to on boost. Ignore the 1.7:1 ratio as it's a meaningless sales term. On vacuum the PBV delivers a higher fuel rail pressure than the stock FPR, and on boost it delivers a 1:1 ratio. Apparently the stock FPR only delivers a 0.95:1 ratio or thereabouts.

Some figures:

Taking static fuel pressure to be 3bar:

Idle vacuum with stock FPR = 2.4bar fuel rail pressure

Idle vacuum with PBV = 2.6bar fuel rail pressure

2bar boost pressure with stock FPR = 4.8bar fuel rail pressure

2bar boost pressure with PBV - 5.0bar fuel rail pressure

There is a racing regulator they do which is a rising rate regulator when under boost, but they don't recommend them for road cars.

So. Conclusions are:

1) always do your homework as this time Paul sorta had the figures correct and I certainly didn't It's NOT a 1.7:1 ratio, or a 1.17:1 ratio, in fact you can't put a value on it according to Glencoe.

2) the PBV ups the line pressure under vacuum, and this is where they claim all the "improved response" benefits are found.

3) the PBV also slightly increases fuel pressure when under boost.

4) the stock ECU is mapped to the stock fuel pressure so adding a PBV will change the fuelling slightly richer but nowhere near the amount the 1.7:1 ratio would have acheived.

5) based on 4) I would say that adding a Power Boost Valve will not make enough of a difference to the fuelling of a lean engine. It's sales spiel and design is entirely around improving throttle response by increasing fuel pressure under vacuum, so don't fit one expecting it to cure high boost fuelling problems.

Hopefully this thread is now the definitive guide to FSE/PBV's If you perceive improved throttle response after fitting one, then you've got your money's worth. I'm less wary of them now I know they don't murder the injectors with stupidly high fuel pressure. In my book they have been promoted from "Dangerous" to "Placebo"

All this ties in with your results, Paul, so all in all folks, both Paul and myself have come to the same conclusions using research and empirical testing. Blimey!

-Ian

Nice work lads. I'll have two dyno charts before and after to compare after I fit mine soon. (With new pump too mind)