nic_f Posted November 4, 2004 Author Share Posted November 4, 2004 Originally posted by CJ Good plan - I wish I had done that Yeah, me too..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 Originally posted by Paul E I'm rising above it all Migs - really just hope that it can be sorted for these guys and that Ian's map will work as a good base Fair play, well rise above before you type as all these changing post are doing my noggin in . .. Well yes i hope it can be cracked ..maybe you could help some of these peeps out with their probs:thumbs: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nic_f Posted November 4, 2004 Author Share Posted November 4, 2004 Originally posted by Paul E Smart move m8, think a few will be waiting with you - nice to hear it's OK on the stocks. BTW - anyone contacted the states for a map to see what they have it doing on their larger installs - surely someone like Mohd will be happy to share? (even with an independant user?) Useful to compare the whole lot - good / bad / indifferent? Yeah, have got one from the Yahoo forum. I'm going to have a look at it this evening. Nic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nic_f Posted November 4, 2004 Author Share Posted November 4, 2004 Originally posted by Terry S As usual, way ahead of you mate So far I have compared lots of e-mange maps. Put it this way, Chis is the only one I would let tune my e-manage. Any chance of sharing your findings Nic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonball Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 Nic My thoughts exactly m8! Check out this http://mohdparts.com/supra/index.html A copy of his map is situated here (in amonsgt the hype) - which may or may not be useful to you - also some indications of the settings he has used Have set up a section under technical to see if everyone can share info on this - hopefully some of the mappers will also take note http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=28613 Have also posted up on Supraforums to see if we can get some of those that work over there - I will then share any info that comes back http://www.supraforums.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=236543 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonB Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 Best place for Emanage stuff is the Yahoo groups. There's one for Supras only and a general one. The general one has quite a few files and bits and bobs on including that map of Mohds. Supra Emanage group General Emanage group Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 Nick from the Maps I have seen, Ian's is by far the best and most comprehensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 Originally posted by SimonB Best place for Emanage stuff is the Yahoo groups. If only it was in a more readable format. I've tried several times to follow it but given up now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 Originally posted by Terry S Nick from the Maps I have seen, Ian's is by far the best and most comprehensive. Shucks I'm not really saying much until I sort out some decent evidence. That means datalogs and AFR/boost/rpm graphs, and not just full throttle full boost dyno pulls either. The part throttle part boost midrange is where people spend a lot of time driving and from what I've seen it's very easy to go lean if you don't know it's quirks and foibles That's not to say I'm not confident with my map, I'm just not gonna say it's better than anyone else's without these AFR plots to back it up Dunno when I'll get to do them, things are up in the air at the mo (and the weather has started to suck). -Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 Got an older and a recent plot that I've knocked up into graph form, I hope this can show how the E-Manage can look after those pesky AFRs even at wobbly throttle and boost levels. If mapped properly tee hee A couple of revisions old: http://www.ian.chisholm.clara.net/pix/t67_720inj.jpg A current map: http://www.ian.chisholm.clara.net/pix/t61_850inj.jpg edit - my bloody webspace server has chosen now to explode, you may just get dreaded red x's for now -Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 Originally posted by Ian C my bloody webspace server has chosen now to explode, Upload the pictures to http://www.imageshack.us please, Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 Here is a better idea Older map: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 A current map: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nic_f Posted November 5, 2004 Author Share Posted November 5, 2004 Ian, Thank you for putting those up, how did you get the ARF on the graph, can it be wired into the emanage. Cheers Nic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted November 5, 2004 Share Posted November 5, 2004 The E-manage can datalog whatever you connect to the input harness. My AEM AFR gauge has an output thats wired to the E-manage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nic_f Posted November 5, 2004 Author Share Posted November 5, 2004 Originally posted by Matt Harwood The E-manage can datalog whatever you connect to the input harness. My AEM AFR gauge has an output thats wired to the E-manage. Can I have one of those to please.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted November 5, 2004 Share Posted November 5, 2004 yes Nic we have a batch coming in soon, email me please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted November 5, 2004 Share Posted November 5, 2004 Carlsburg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Posted November 5, 2004 Share Posted November 5, 2004 Originally posted by Matt Harwood Carlsburg More like Stella.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonball Posted November 6, 2004 Share Posted November 6, 2004 have a reply back from SF with a map in use - anyone care to check it out and comment please? http://www.supraforums.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=2449537#post2449537 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tannhauser Posted November 6, 2004 Share Posted November 6, 2004 Originally posted by Paul E have a reply back from SF with a map in use - anyone care to check it out and comment please? http://www.supraforums.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=2449537#post2449537 I'm not qualified to comment but I'd like to add a Noddy question about this map: He hasn't added any additional injector values in. I thought the purpose of these was to add duty cycle in order to accommodate the increased fuelling needed when under boost? Without these values, how come the car isn't running rich at higher revs, but OFF boost? For example, let's say he's accelerating at 40% throttle and 4200rpm: the map tells us that the emanage is adding 10% extra airflow signal - so the ecu adds more fuel. Let's say the turbo has achieved 0.4 bar boost at this throttle. The 10% extra fuel (or thereabouts) helps the car maintain a nice afr despite the fact that the SP63 is flowing more air than the ecu is used to seeing from the stock turbos. But what if he is at 4000rpm, 40 % throttle, but has just backed off from 6000rpm? In this case, he could be at a much lower boost pressure and hence LESS fuel is needed than at 0.4 bar. However, the emanage is STILL giving the ecu the 10% extra airflow signal - and so the ecu is STILL adding fuel -so why doen't the car run too rich? I'm not doubting that his car runs fine, but I can't square it with my (limited) understanding of how the emanage works. Can anyone explain? Cliff Edited for sense - hopefully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted November 6, 2004 Share Posted November 6, 2004 You've gotta remember the guy is on a stock fuel system (that's 550's). There is no global correction factor, hurrah, so the figures in the map are actually what's going on, and he's upping the airflow signal and therefore the fuelling around 3000+ to cure that pesky lean spot, and then adding more as the turbo comes on song. Which is all well and good, but +20% airflow means he'll reach boost cut faster - at about 0.6bar, as by then the ECU thinks it's getting 1bar boost and is fuelling accordingly. This in turn means that by the time he's past 9psi of boost, the injectors are flat out at 100%. We can assume there is a fuel cut defender then clamping the signal at 1bar boost as the guy says he reaches 19psi on higher octane fuel. The fuel pressure may be up from stock, his post doesn't say but the idle trimming could point towards that, but that's about all the help the fuel system could be getting. Can't say it's a setup I'd like to run, but that's me in England speaking -Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tannhauser Posted November 6, 2004 Share Posted November 6, 2004 Originally posted by Ian C You've gotta remember the guy is on a stock fuel system (that's 550's). There is no global correction factor, hurrah, so the figures in the map are actually what's going on, and he's upping the airflow signal and therefore the fuelling around 3000+ to cure that pesky lean spot, and then adding more as the turbo comes on song. -Ian Right, I'm bloody lost now. I guess what I'm asking is how any car can be set up to run without using the additional injector map, regardless of the global correction thingy. I thought the problem with the airflow map (used by itself) was that each cell only offers a single adjustment at a particular throttle and rpm and that this single adjustment can't take into account the differing circumstances the car might be in (e.g. higher or lower boost). Therefore the additional injector map can trim/add duty cycle for each pressure. But if there's no additional injector map, the car is only set up to run ideally for one particular boost pressure. - Confused of Wiltshire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted November 6, 2004 Share Posted November 6, 2004 The addinj map can't trim duty cycle, but other than that you are right. The single adjustment applies to all airflow values that are encountered at that throttle position and RPM - so it'll be increasing the signal by the same amount at vacuum, overrun, cruise, and various levels of boost. The fuelling requirements for these scenarios varies quite a bit though, and although a one-size-fits-all airflow adjustment value is OK for a lot of load sites, it's not OK for quite a few important ones. If you tune airflow only you have to play safe and fuel enough for the worst case scenario - full boost and a bit - and lump it when a little bit of boost runs uber-rich as a result, or even cruising eats more fuel than it should. This is why I'm no longer a fan of the Apexi units for big jobs - that and their lack of load sites in the first place. And also I guess some people's definitions of "mapped" and "running OK" differ to others -Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tannhauser Posted November 6, 2004 Share Posted November 6, 2004 OK, ta Ian. I couldn't square the two things and it was upsetting my evening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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