Brakes

[Rich J]

I got my braided hoses from Leon and they are all stainless steel, just checked with a magnet.

[Paul Booth]

 

Stainless end-fittings too (Aluminium is non-magnetic)?

 

If they're crimped end-fittings, NOT reusables can you tell me how much please?

 

I've pretty much decided I'm going to use that combination and Oldham is a sodding long way for a handful of hoses.

 

[Paul Booth]

On the subject of brake upgrades and my Axia 18" wheels.

 

I measured the distance between the disc face and the inside of my wheels; it's 52mm.

I measured the clearance distance distance an AP calliper needs from the rotor face on a Subaru (hey, I was at Powerstation and they have them kicking around in droves. No Supras other than mine). It was 55mm.

Now, if I'm lucky and the UK spec callipers have the same stickingoutness, I can get away with a 5mm spacer.

 

Comments please? Non derisory if possible but anything will do.

 

[Guest Ash]

 

Anyone who uses ally brake fittings on a road car is asking for trouble. Ally oxidises more readily than perhaps most people realise - especially under typical winter road conditions.

 

Such fittings are designed for race use only where they will receive regular inspection and/or timed replacement.  

 

High grade stainless steel is virtually impervious to corrosion and is the best material to use; which exceeds OEM spec in almost all cases, as most manufacturers employ plated mild steel. So no-one should have any qualms about using SS fittings on their road-going MKIV. In fact, stainless braided hoses and fittings are a universally recognised brake improvement modification for both cars and motorcycles alike.  

 

Stainless screw-type fittings and stainless braided hoses are perfectly re-useable. It is the sealing glands that cannot be re-used and the actual hose-end that has been in contact with the gland. There is no real benefit in using a crimp-type seal or a threaded-type seal. Provided each is done properly, they both have the effect of performing the same function of sealing the pipe to the connector... they just do it in different ways.

   

As for SRF fluid absorbing water from the atmosphere: fact is, conventional brake fluids *are* hydroscopic... to the extent where manufacturers will recommend that brake fluid is changed at certain intervals. However, as regards the MKIV, SRF fluid is specifically recommended, under certain circumstances by ChrisW.

 

To be quite frank, my practical knowledge of racing, et al, is zilch compared to Chris. So if he recommends it, then I, for one, will happily stand in line.

 

Yours,

J

[Paul Booth]

To be quite frank, my practical knowledge of racing, et al, is zilch compared to Chris. So if he recommends it, then I, for one, will happily stand in line

 

... as will I, as soon as decide to go racing with my Supra, but until that day I will stick with what is best for fast road use.

 

Aeropquip have a disclaimer in their parts catalogue to their factors and manufacturers to the effect "not to be used for road use".

 

Of course, I'm not that knowledgeable on the subject. If he's not returned to his home in Northern California yet, maybe someone would like to give Ian Hamer a call at his UK office 0161 633 6424. He's been supplying custom hoses for 30+ years and I'm damned if I'm going to argue with him.

 

[Branners]

Quote: from Paul Booth on 7:03 pm on June 14, 2001[br]On the subject of brake upgrades and my Axia 18" wheels.

 

I measured the distance between the disc face and the inside of my wheels; it's 52mm.

I measured the clearance distance distance an AP calliper needs from the rotor face on a Subaru (hey, I was at Powerstation and they have them kicking around in droves. No Supras other than mine). It was 55mm.

Now, if I'm lucky and the UK spec callipers have the same stickingoutness, I can get away with a 5mm spacer.

 

Comments please? Non derisory if possible but anything will do.

 

 

I have a mail from the guys in NZ saying that it needs 65mm. I havent checked this but the guys in NZ tend to know what they are talking about. The safest bet it to put your wheels onto a car with UK brakes, the design of the spokes has a lot to do with it as well.

 

I think the APs on the Scoobs are 4pot, the APs on the Supra are 6 pots.

 

JB

[Paul Booth]

Yeah, I knew it was wishful thinking but it passed the time while Dirk was getting his hands oily on my Slurpa this morning.

 

BTW, there's a rare treat, seeing Dirk out of the office and doing some work. I suggested having the phone surgically removed a couple of weeks ago and he must have taken it to heart.

 

Humour: Powerstation have a brand-new Peugot 106 GTi in there, owned by a  20 year old who's having them spend £8k on the engine, looking to get as near to 160bhp as possible. No brakes mentioned, just the engine.

Please don't let it be me stopped at the lights in front when he's out and about.

 

 

[Guest Ash]

 

Yes JB I'd agree with your figure: for the Brembos, at a point appoximately 135mm from the wheel centre, you need approx. 70mm of clearance... so 65mm seems about right as a guestimate for the UK-spec brakes as they are just a tad smaller.

 

Yours,

J

 

[Paul Booth]

Well, it's Carbon pads until such time as they have eaten the discs, then it's either new discs, same spec., or add new rims to the budget for new brakes.

 

Groan!!! How much are nice 18/19" rims? Mine came with them fitted. I don't think I'm going to want to know really, am I? I think I feel sick.

 

[Rich J]

Quote: from Paul Booth on 6:57 pm on June 14, 2001[br]

Stainless end-fittings too (Aluminium is non-magnetic)?

 

Pretty sure they are actually on the car so it was hard finding a place to put the magnet where is wasn't near the chassis, but it stuck to everything.

 

If they're crimped end-fittings, NOT reusables can you tell me how much please?

 

Yes they are crimped end fittings.

Leon Green does the whole set for about 60-70 pounds

 

[Paul Booth]

 

Thanks.

 

I'll  give him a call after I've spoken to the nice man from the MoT who's supposed to be calling me.

[Rich J]

Quote: from Paul Booth on 10:40 pm on June 14, 2001[br]Thanks.

I'll  give him a call after I've spoken to the nice man from the MoT who's supposed to be calling me.

 

Having looked at them again (hey I got a torch out and everything, they look like the Zinc plated Steel Goodridge hose ends. So they are probably not crimped.

[Paul Booth]

 

I got the same vibe from Rich via email. It looks like the Leon standard hose uses the plated end-fittings.

 

I've gone too far now. I'm going for broke and I'm gonna find those solid stainless crimped end-fittings.

 

Amusing anecdote: About twenty-something years ago, back in the days I used to be able to afford rallying, I had an evil 2.3 Firenza (didn't go round bends all that well but infinite amount of torque - used to leave Group 1 RS2000 for dead in a straight line).

Anyway, it got nicked by joy riders. When the police found it they took me out to collect it in the paddy wagon, generous you might think. Not so. One of the bobbies was building a rally Firenza and wanted to see how I had achieved the negative camber and reinforced the notoriously weak trailing rear links.

 

So, you get the idea.

 

Picture this contable, in full uniform, on his back in the rain under the back of my car with a torch making appreciative muffled grunting noises.

 

I will carry that image to the grave.

 

[Paul Booth]

This is getting surreal.

 

The very VERY nice man from the MoT called me this a.m.. He is extremely interested in this question as he runs a Lada Niva in off-road competitions and on the road (I know, I know, what could I say really?) and he doesn't know the answer.

He does, however, know who in the Vehicle Inspectorate to program to get the answer.

Are you, like me, getting the feeling that only those people who are actually hose experts have any sort of idea what this is all about or have even read the paperwork on this.

 

I throw down the Gauntlet: can anyone find anyone like Powerstation (who have heard squat on this) who have actually heard anything on this subject?

 

Once the people at VI have answered the nice Lada off-roader at MoT and he's got back to me, I'll post it.

 

Larff, well how I larffed......

 

[Paul Booth]

Right here it is:

 

The nice man from the MoT called me this a.m. after talking to his friend in the Vehicle Inspectorate and you're gonna love it (I insist!).

 

It is not reasonable for any MoT inspector to be able to differentiate between re-usable and crimped end-fittings and it is especially unreasonable for an MoT inspector to be asked to determine the material type of the end-fittings, ergo any stainless overbraid hose with whatever end-fittings will be deemed to be acceptable if they are perceived to be in good condition.

In other words, they will NOT differentiate between braided hoses and standard rubber hoses.

 

So (you know what's coming now don't you?) I called my smug friend in Oldham and told him what I had discovered. This caused him immense consternation as he has the Aeroquip instructions in front of him AND he has recently had a West..'something-or-other' fail an SVA because it has stainless hoses and he had to replace the hoses for rubber to get his SVA.

Needless to say, he now wants the number for the nice man at the MoT so he can have the person who failed his SVA fired.

 

Bottom line.... use your hoses in peace but DO remember, Aluminium and salt do NOT go together. Either use stainless end-to-end or check them 'rigorously' at regular intervals.

 

[GavinL]

Hi...

 

If we have come to the conclusion that full s/steel hoses are the way to go ....... who can supply a set for the MKIV and how much.

 

Gavin

[Phil Wall]

My sons MOT confirms the previous posts, all stainless lines, passed OK.

 

Now for some for the Supra.

 

But where do we get them?

[Guest Ash]

 

 

I had a chat with a buddy of mine who has been an MOT inspector for some time (amongst other things). He says their job is basically to check the condition and/or effectiveness of items such as brake-pipes, et al, at the time the car is tested.

 

He gave me a like example of the car's bodywork, saying, it doesn't matter to him whether the body is fiberglass, steel, aluminium, etc. Provided there is no corrosion to the extent where it would affect the structural integrity of the vehicle, at the time the test is conducted, then it will pass a UK MOT. He further added that he often came across cars that had corrosion problems which he estimated that, another winter down the line *may* be an MOT failure. But, at the time of the current test, it was a pass.    

 

Likewise, he added, with the brake fittings: provided whatever *is* fitted is doing an adequate job at the time of the MOT then the vehicle should pass. And he further went on to say that it was not his job to speculate what may (or may not) happen some time in the future.  

 

He also pointed out some small-print somewhere where it says that just because a vehicle may have a current MOT certificate: that fact, in itself, is in no way any kind of guarantee that the vehicle the certificate relates to  is actually roadworthy... just that, on that day, at that time, it passed a UK MOT.

 

HTH,

J

[Paul Booth]

He gave me a like example of the car's bodywork, saying, it doesn't matter to him whether the body is fiberglass, steel, aluminium, etc.

 

Seems to confirm it.

As for SVAs, one does whatever one has to to get it through, after that one does pretty much what one damn well feels like.....

 

I have to supply my friend in Oldham with the name and direct-dial details of the nice man at the MoT and he has committed to provide the name(s) of one or more companies dahn sarf who can provide full stainless end-to-end for those of us who don't want to be going under our cars every week-end, at the same time.

 

As and when he comes up with the goods, obviously I'll sell the data (well that's what everyone does isn't it - humour), I'll post it on 'ere. Hopefully tomorrow but I do have to pick up my new caravan sometime tomorrow and I'm all girly excited about that and I might forget. Before Thursday, whatever.

 

Anyone see that car-caravan exceed 200mph on the TV recently? Wasn't me but it got me thinking......

 

[Paul Booth]

This is somewhat embarrassing and I feel like a cheap salesman.

 

Ian Hamer in Oldham has said that he can supply stainless braided hoses with crimped stainless end-fittings.

 

I asked him about Aeroquip and, although they are a factor for Aeroquip, he thinks they've lost the plot somewhat over the last few years.

He is going to supply me with 'Earl' braided hoses and crimped stainless end-fittings, however; MKIV hose construction is not listed in their bible of hoses and so he needs a set of standard hoses for his engineers to match to.

Now this means me taking mine off the road while he does this and I'm not keen on that idea.

Does anyone have a set of standard hoses they've taken off I can borrow as a model until my nice shiny ones are delivered?

 

As and when he's made up mine, anyone else not already having access to a local supplier, can call him at:

 

Ian Hamer

Hamer-Stevenson Hydraulics Ltd.

Oldham

0161 633 6424

[email protected]

 

I have absolutely no idea what he's going to charge but he's usually pretty fair (he's a collector of rare metal, e.g. mint AC Ace, MGA Twin-cam, etc. and is fairly sympathetic to interesting car owners). If anyone thinks he's a bit steep, drop me a line and I'll have words with him about his heritage.

 

[Branners]

you cant even get a rough idea how much? Most places charge about £100 for a set, I think Leon does them quite a bit cheaper than that.

 

JB

[Paul Booth]

Because I know the guy, I'm not going to get involved in quoting issues. It's his business and whether he wants to supply hoses to 'non-trade' is up to him.

I don't want to be obstructive but I'm not going to risk friendships and potential future friendships over brake hoses that I'm not selling.

I'm using him because he and one of the other directors are also car enthusiasts and have been friends for 20 years. He used to supply hoses for my bikes and I trust him not to supply me with stainless plated mild steel and, through lack of expert knowledge, tell me they're solid stainless.

 

Obviously, it's in my interest to ensure he has the specs for the hoses, otherwise he can't do mine, but other than that, if he never sells another MKIV hose I shan't lose sleep.

 

Likewise, if other MKIV owners feel happy using re-usable Aluminium end-fittings (so long as it's not me they're behind, nor my children in the bus queue), I shan't worry about that either. They're pefectly legal for MoT purposes.

 

[GavinL]

Hi...

 

I might of miread but I thought Leons hoses were not full stainless.

 

gav

[Branners]

Quote: from HardHead42 on 10:22 pm on June 14, 2001[br]

Quote: from Paul Booth on 6:57 pm on June 14, 2001[br]

Stainless end-fittings too (Aluminium is non-magnetic)?

 

Pretty sure they are actually on the car so it was hard finding a place to put the magnet where is wasn't near the chassis, but it stuck to everything.

 

If they're crimped end-fittings, NOT reusables can you tell me how much please?

 

Yes they are crimped end fittings.

Leon Green does the whole set for about 60-70 pounds

 

 

This was from RJ earlier in this post, seems Leons are full steel, unless I am misreading it.

 

JB

[Paul Booth]

Easiest answer is to pick up the phone. It's what I keep meaning to do but as soon as I do I know I'll hear something which means I'll have to get in my car and drive down the M40.

 

The only reason I haven't called Leon to confirm the spec. on his hoses is because of the price I pay elsewhere (cough!).