Pig Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 My car has recently been smoking LOTS on start up. The is confirmed to be the dreaded blue smoke by matt harwood and lucifer! However the last couple of times i have turned the car on there has been no smoke??? my oil light came on the other day so put lots of oil in....any ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul mac Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 if its started to smoke it will come back mine did that, just a tip mate dont wait for the oil light to come on to check the oil what if the warning bulb went bye bye engine:( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pig Posted May 11, 2006 Author Share Posted May 11, 2006 Good point! will try to remember! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wkdtime Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 Stem seals mate from what i think, it will do it sometimes and sometimes its fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockys96 Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 you have been boosting around and blown your engine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
letmeshowyou Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 its not smoking cos its run out of oil to smoke with? check it more often!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pig Posted May 11, 2006 Author Share Posted May 11, 2006 Flled it up a couple of days ago so level will be fine. Been driving her a fair it lighter, could this be anything to do with it?? Dont feel as though i have much to prove anymore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucifer Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 It is quite a bad one Jon, I am supprised to hear its a bit better. I had one of my own like this, but then went away for a bit. I also was being nicer to it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pig Posted May 12, 2006 Author Share Posted May 12, 2006 Back again this morning, it was just because i was being nicer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted May 12, 2006 Share Posted May 12, 2006 Valve stem seals mate, mine was exactly the same. Not sure, but the stopping/starting smoking may be due to the positions of the leaky valves and seals when the engine's off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bulldog Posted May 12, 2006 Share Posted May 12, 2006 Stem seal wear will only cause an engine to smoke on start-up or after any over run (eg. after coasting down hill with your foot off the throttle.) If your engine smokes when under load 1, check your breather system is not blocked up 2, check the oil level is not to high 3, check with your bank manager to see if you can afford a re-bore a set of pistons & maybe a full new set of valve guides & then speak to Lucifer & ask for a good deal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul mac Posted May 12, 2006 Share Posted May 12, 2006 Stem seal wear will only cause an engine to smoke on start-up or after any over run (eg. after coasting down hill with your foot off the throttle.) If your engine smokes when under load 1, check your breather system is not blocked up 2, check the oil level is not to high 3, check with your bank manager to see if you can afford a re-bore a set of pistons & maybe a full new set of valve guides & then speak to Lucifer & ask for a good deal nope stem seal wear will cause a supe to smoke on start up on a fairly random basis like someone has said i think it depends on where the cams fall when the engine is switched off, it is not a massive concern (just a little embarrasing) mine ran like this for a year and a half, when i took the head off everything was nice and shiny but the stem seals were absolutely shot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bulldog Posted May 12, 2006 Share Posted May 12, 2006 It depends on where the cam falls?? How dos the position of of a rubber seal on a precision ground or coated valve stem affect its abillity to prevent oil from passing? unless the valve stem has worn which is very un common on the 2jz engine that hasnt been subject to oil starvation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul mac Posted May 12, 2006 Share Posted May 12, 2006 It depends on where the cam falls?? How dos the position of of a rubber seal on a precision ground or coated valve stem affect its abillity to prevent oil from passing? unless the valve stem has worn which is very un common on the 2jz engine that hasnt been subject to oil starvation really dont know fella, one and a half years of intermitant smoking on start up, changed the stem seals and hey presto smoking gone completely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bulldog Posted May 12, 2006 Share Posted May 12, 2006 And lets not forget the hundreds of engines that have a much larger clearence from the guide to the valve & yet dont have any stem seal at all why dont they intermitantly smoke? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminator Posted May 12, 2006 Share Posted May 12, 2006 Valve stem seal failure is one of the most common causes of intermitant smoke on startup. Most are getting pretty old and brittle by now. Rope trick( MKIV.com) or head off, Dude did announce he had a tool for this just before he was taken from us. Almost all cars have no smoke after seal replacement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul mac Posted May 12, 2006 Share Posted May 12, 2006 And lets not forget the hundreds of engines that have a much larger clearence from the guide to the valve & yet dont have any stem seal at all why dont they intermitantly smoke? sorry if this doesn't sit with your way of thinking but intermitant smoke on start up on a MKIV is valve stem seals FACT, i have stripped my head down to component level done light porting, polished the hell out of it, changed the valve seals, re-fitted it and guess what, it NEVER smoked again on start up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bulldog Posted May 12, 2006 Share Posted May 12, 2006 A tempory fix im affraid!! After 15 years of engine reconditioning & becoming the owner of my own reconditioning company Ive realized that an engine will only rely on stem seals when the correct clearance in the guide has been lost due to wear or when crank case pressure is increased by tired bore walls & rings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul mac Posted May 13, 2006 Share Posted May 13, 2006 ok buddy whatever i think we'll have to agree to disagree hear, have you taken a set of exhaust valve stem seals off a MKIV if the answer was yes you would appreciate the reason they leak they litterally come of in bits, i can appreciate some engines dont use stem seals and thats a different argument alltogether but the fact is Mr Toyota (who knows a little about engine building) put stem seals in the 2JZGTE and after high miles they fail, simple, i stripped my head verifing tolerances as per Mr Toyotas manual and the valves and bores were in tolerance if they weren't they would have been changed (i'me fussy like that), there really isn't an issue here mate if the car smokes on start up and its a few years old its pretty much guaranteed its the stem seals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bulldog Posted May 13, 2006 Share Posted May 13, 2006 Agreed valve stem seals do fail on the 2jz at about 4-5 years old not due to wear but due to oil contamination slowly making the rubber go brittle, however providing its serviced regularly the valve stem & guide should last at least 90-100k (approx 9-10 years ave) before relying on the stem seal which has long since perished & needs replacing in order to mask the real problem. If I was Mr Toyota I would be ashamed if my brand new engine was relying on a .25mm thick contact of cheap rubber to prevent it smoking & I would probably want to recalibrate my measuring equiptment too!! P.S Dont mean to piss you off but I do love a bit of banter Cheers!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucifer Posted May 19, 2006 Share Posted May 19, 2006 Agreed valve stem seals do fail on the 2jz at about 4-5 years old not due to wear but due to oil contamination slowly making the rubber go brittle, however providing its serviced regularly the valve stem & guide should last at least 90-100k (approx 9-10 years ave) before relying on the stem seal which has long since perished & needs replacing in order to mask the real problem. If I was Mr Toyota I would be ashamed if my brand new engine was relying on a .25mm thick contact of cheap rubber to prevent it smoking & I would probably want to recalibrate my measuring equiptment too!! P.S Dont mean to piss you off but I do love a bit of banter Cheers!! Sounds about right to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kranz Posted May 19, 2006 Share Posted May 19, 2006 Stem seals are fitted by the manufacturer to REDUCE oil drain down the guides when running & at shutdown otherwise: 1) the valve guide would be over lubricated, 2) the oil would get into the combustion chamber & contaminate the incoming combustion charge (when off boost) 3) oil would contaminate the exhaust & catalysts 4) the excess oil on the valve stems would burn into a gummy carbon mess that would cause valve sticking The guides need them from day 1. Turbo engines run with wider valve to guide clearances due to the higher thermal loadings on the valves (to allow for more expansion). As the guide stem seals deteriorate, the problems begin to occur as listed above, and this is probably exactly what Mr Toyota found during initial development. Shame they didn't find a better material that could last the life of the engine (PTFE?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted May 19, 2006 Share Posted May 19, 2006 I think the Ferrea ones are uprated / different material. I've used 'em anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bulldog Posted May 20, 2006 Share Posted May 20, 2006 due to the angle of the valves in the head, the low position of the oil return holes & the fact that the valve stem only recives an over spill feed from the cam journals in the 2jz & in most multi valve (shimmed) heads oil drain down is not that big of an issue. I still maintain that smoking on start up or after long periods of over run is not so much stem seal but dew to irregular wear on the stem & guide. although changing the stem seal will mask the problem for a while.I have stripped many 2jz heads that have crumbling stem seals & yet my customers have told me there are no signs of smoke at all....Explain!! PS valve sticking is caused by repetative short journeys that dont allow the tiny amount of oil that dos reach the valve head to be burnt clean. When I have a head for reconning i can always tell from the carbon deposits if its a motorway car or a town car. Hmmm more food for thought!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainchaos Posted June 14, 2006 Share Posted June 14, 2006 mine does the same sometimes its smokey sometimes its fine also have a small amount of smoke if its left to idle and then give it a little blip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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