geoffvalenti Posted April 13, 2006 Share Posted April 13, 2006 Hi All, Well you have seen the pics and have heard what James had to say and the engine died due to oil pump failure ( Not complete Failure but full of sludge ) From what we have discovered it seems that there has been a build up of sludge in the engine this has been on going for a long time and could be due to a number of factors, wrong oil , high engine temps, filter failure ECT. The damage has been quite extensive and has taken out No:4 big end and ovaled the rod cap, the crank journal on No:4 has also been badly damaged Must say that we have seen the inside of many Supra engines but the state of the inside of this one ranks high in the Oh my God stakes. Just goes to show that unless you really keep on top of things it will turn round and bite you on the ass. Thanks for the report Greg, it rather confirms my, and a few others, diagnosis of the noises on the video that James posted. The state of the engine also goes a long way to reinforcing my belief, that contrary to popular opinion, mainly banded around by those that sell oil, that putting the highest quality, over specified (read most expensive) oil in an engine of unknown history, is a complete waste of money and does nothing to counteract the abuse of years gone by. Toyota, themselves, recommend 10-30 weight MINERAL oil, so I doubt very much whether the use of this will have led to the demise of this particular engine. More likely is lack of regular oil changes, and general abuse by previous owners, long before James ever owned the car. If you've got a brand new engine, then by all means run it on the most expensive fully synthetic oil your wallet can stand. It certainly won't hurt it, and you'll be doing all you can to keep it in top condition for the next owner. If however you've inherited an unknown quantity, sloshing gallons of oil at £40+ a throw down the filler tube will do you no good whatsoever, apart from being best mates with the guy (no pun intended ) that sells it to you. The secret is good quality oil, that meets the manufacturers specifications, changed regularly. Unfortunately whenever you buy a 2nd hand car, unless you personally know its history, you never know what's been done to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chilli Posted April 13, 2006 Share Posted April 13, 2006 Excellent info greg, good to know the details As for the sludge, this concerns me. That's two bottom end failures in as many months - both apparently caused by sludge blocking up the oil suction pipe or pump. hmmm me too, I don't like the sound of this. Problem is the gauze in the sump is not an easily accessable item is it, doh! As well as regular changes (and expensive oil can't make things worse regardless of the cars history and is a small price to pay for maximum protection) I do wonder if oil flush on every change might help to get rid of some of the crap that builds up, otherwise it's sump off time and that is a bit painful, but then again not as much as an engine rebuild. PS: so related, for BPU or higher what's the recommended oil change interval then for safety, every 3k miles or so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted April 13, 2006 Share Posted April 13, 2006 The oil sludge is well over the top. They must have been using the shittiest dyno oil they could get their hands on. And leaving it there until it rots. Dodgy sort of failures, because there is a good chance that other parts have gone south from lack of decent lubrication. Call me paranoid, but my oil is changed every 2-3K miles with full synth. Better safe than sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digsy Posted April 13, 2006 Share Posted April 13, 2006 I had a nose around under my car the other day. The oil pick-up pipe will be in the lowest part of the pan. It just so happens that the Supra pan is the style that has a pressed steel "closure plate" over the very bottom. It is held on with a ring of M6 screws and sealed with liquid sealant - it looked like an RTV type. You can get to the bolts along both sides and the rear edge easily. The front row is obsucred by the subframe but it looked to me like if you dropped the undertray you could just about get a wobble-socket onto them. If so then this would be a way to check the pickup gauze without having to drop the subframe. A word of caution though: That RTV stuff sticks like the proverbial to a blanket. I reckon you'd stand a pretty good chance of damaging the steel closure plate in trying to get it off. Putting it back on again would require a thorough clean up of both parts and re-application of a decent RTV sealant (NOT bathroom mastick! ) then then an overnight cure before filling up and checking for leaks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uk-rich Posted April 13, 2006 Share Posted April 13, 2006 i tried, it is not possible to remove the oil pan while on the car, not enough clearance, unless you drop the frame Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uk-rich Posted April 13, 2006 Share Posted April 13, 2006 p.s i know a lot of people on here hate the thought of flush, but i have always used, to prevent anything like this happening to me. it has been said that the flush washes out too much and can create rattles, leaks etc, i know which i would rather have (never created any of these for me, on any of the cars i have used it on) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted April 13, 2006 Share Posted April 13, 2006 He's not talking about the whole oil pan mate, just some sort of platey bit on it Wouldn't the flush just wash more crap into the sump? -Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uk-rich Posted April 13, 2006 Share Posted April 13, 2006 its in 2 pieces mate, the bit he is on about is the bit im on about ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chilli Posted April 13, 2006 Share Posted April 13, 2006 He's not talking about the whole oil pan mate, just some sort of platey bit on it Wouldn't the flush just wash more crap into the sump? -Ian Isn't that the idea though, wash it into the sump just as you drain out the oil... hence it doesn't get trapped in the system and ultimately in the gauze... I'd rather risk the odd leak or rattle (so if it's that badly worn you want to know rather than hope for the best that carbon deposits etc are holding your engine together?) than a full on rebuild when it all gets blocked up and kills an otherwise perfectly fine engine... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terribleturner Posted April 13, 2006 Author Share Posted April 13, 2006 Have you got a pic of the fecked rod and cap? No am afraid not From now on all future oil changes will be done by me and me alone and every 2/3000 miles. The oil pump was in a very poor state and a good reason to all at BPU or + that if you have some spare cash get an oil pressure gauge in and look after what goes in the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gzaerojon Posted April 13, 2006 Share Posted April 13, 2006 Only just read this, i had my fingers crossed it would be something simple hope it all goes ok mate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terribleturner Posted April 13, 2006 Author Share Posted April 13, 2006 Well apart from it getting a good fresh clean up it also means i can get the single on while the engines out Been fiddling with my oil and 2 tranny coolers today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobSheffield Posted April 13, 2006 Share Posted April 13, 2006 hmm, doing an oil change this weekend, im thinking about using the flush now, i have used it on past cars, but none of them cost very much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregsupra4 Posted April 14, 2006 Share Posted April 14, 2006 i tried, it is not possible to remove the oil pan while on the car, not enough clearance, unless you drop the frame Sorry but you can remove the oil pan whilst the engine is in the car. To remove: use a good engine hoist to hold the engine up ( not remove) take out the left side engine mount, hoist the engine up a couple of inchs and you will find the oil pan will slip out through where you removed the engine mount ( not forward but out the side) The above asumes that you have already removed the oil return and down pipe. Nasty job and takes a couple of hours both ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted April 14, 2006 Share Posted April 14, 2006 ...From now on all future oil changes will be done by me and me alone and every 2/3000 miles. . You would have thought that an oil/filter change can be done even by a trained monkey, but here are reasons to do it yourself: 1. You KNOW that the old oil was drained completely (it could take 2-3 hours to totally stop dripping. A garage would like to get finished ASAP) 2. You KNOW what oil quality was really used to refill 3. You know that no threads were stripped in the sump 4. You know that the drain bolt was properly tightened afterwards 5. You KNOW that the oil filter was primed before fitting. This is very important on a turbo car. It takes time to fill it with oil, wait until it settles down, then top up again, wait, top up again as the element absorbs oil slowly. If the oil filter is empty (as garages usually fit them to save time) then on startup the turbos will be left with no oil pressure for several seconds until the oil filter fills up. This is enough to create slight damage on the turbo shafts, it is visible. Do this a dozen times and the turbos will be smoking badly, this damage is cumulative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piehound Posted April 14, 2006 Share Posted April 14, 2006 my cause is shown on here http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?t=61446&highlight=big+ends Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chilli Posted April 14, 2006 Share Posted April 14, 2006 good points john, mine needs an oil change soon, I was going to get the local garage to do it but stay and supervise but unless I can be sure they won't rush it I'm tempted to do it myself, the car is so low that jacking is a pita though. Is the sump plug a regular socket or a large hex key or what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piehound Posted April 14, 2006 Share Posted April 14, 2006 just a socket i cant rememeber what size Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chilli Posted April 14, 2006 Share Posted April 14, 2006 cheers hows your car now pie? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piehound Posted April 14, 2006 Share Posted April 14, 2006 it running great its like a sewing machine super smooth im keeping it as near 3k as i can at the mo for another 150 miles then it goes back in for a new filter and oil change, i did however have to take it to 6k revs yesterday to show a subabru a lesson lol and of course to make sure number 2 tubby was playing, all i had to do was get the aircon regassed after i got it back but i knew that anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chilli Posted April 14, 2006 Share Posted April 14, 2006 really glad to hear you got it sorted so quickly, that was a quick turn around or so it seemed, probably seemed like ages to you lol. You nutter, I know these subarus need teaching a thing or two but don't risk your engine for it lol. Isn't this the most critical time, I guess you've nearly finished with the gentle period now so it's not so bad. anyway glad it's all sorted, I've been taking note and will be doing regular changes and flushes now with the upmost care! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Posted April 14, 2006 Share Posted April 14, 2006 Bloody ell mate only just noticed this! Is it costing you a bomb? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terribleturner Posted April 25, 2006 Author Share Posted April 25, 2006 Well the crankshaft was unsavable and so i have a 2nd hand one going on. The cylinder head has been skimmed and pressure tested. Conrods all checked and #4 replaced as well as new rings, main and big end bearings. Should out last the car Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terribleturner Posted April 25, 2006 Author Share Posted April 25, 2006 Oh and i get to keep my faulty conrod as a sovenier May make a necklace out of it Beastyboy style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucifer Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 Nice on M8. Did you check the guides? and do you need a stem seal kit as I have 3 in stock as of tomorrow. good price too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now