Roy Posted June 17, 2003 Share Posted June 17, 2003 hi guys - i'm after all the tech guru's thoughts and advice on the upgrade path as in what needs to be done, in what order and most importantly - what NOT to do ... the car is a J-spec '94 GZ auto with abt 45k miles on the clock and i am looking for between 500 - 550 reliable (UK) bhp and high torque. not much in the way of mods so far but the list includes : 1) 2nd cat pipe is off, hyper exhaust 2) fcd, walbro pump, fse fuel press. regulator 3) hks cams (264 in n out) with hks cam gears 4) blitz sbc-id, erl WI kit (coming soon), hks T.timer 5) UK-spec discs n pads (with goodridge hoses) 6) trd front n rear sway bars, h&r lowering springs (swopping to billsteins n eibach soon) 7) blitz SUS induction kit, hks type s I/C, hard pipe kit for rad (incoming fluidyne) and samco hoses for turbo + sqv bov 8) racelogic TC n safc v2 (not fitted yet) 9) defi egt, boost n oil press. gauges will have a go at an RR soon to get a baseline map (should've got one done b/4 these mods) to see how much it is putting out now. my next course of action is hybrid turbos (or small single?), hks fuel rail/hks 680cc injectors and an aftermarket ecu (Aem/Blitz/Toms/Mines) to finish it off. gentlemen - your thougts/observations and advice please .... thank you all very much. would appreciate the thoughts of everyone as i am sure some or most of you have had experience in these matters and i am a tech moron ! pls also feel free to tell me what i shouldn't have done and shouldn't do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezabloke Posted June 17, 2003 Share Posted June 17, 2003 You could always spend some money and get the holes in your bonnet filled, it'll stop all that nasty rain getting on your shiney bits?......lol:p Im sure someone sensible will be along shortly to give advice... See ya soon.......... :flame Dev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam W Posted June 17, 2003 Share Posted June 17, 2003 Big fuel system, ie twin pumps and 800cc injectors or so; big intercooler, ie Greddy three row or similar; standalone ECU, AEM is probably the best supported for the supra and easiest to fit but do lots of research here; built autobox from one of the big yank companies; medium single turbo, PHR stage 2, SP63, T-66 or similar. Plus lots of other stuff I've probably forgotten! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorin Posted June 17, 2003 Share Posted June 17, 2003 Originally posted by Adam W Big fuel system, ie twin pumps and 800cc injectors or so; big intercooler, ie Greddy three row or similar; standalone ECU, AEM is probably the best supported for the supra and easiest to fit but do lots of research here; built autobox from one of the big yank companies; medium single turbo, PHR stage 2, SP63, T-66 or similar. Plus lots of other stuff I've probably forgotten! Don't you think 800cc injectors are a bit overkill for 500-550bhp? I would have also thought his Blitz FMIC would be perfectly fine for that power also. Have to agree though, to make 550 reliably you're looking at a single turbo conversion. 500 is really about the limit for hybrids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam W Posted June 17, 2003 Share Posted June 17, 2003 You're probably right on both counts thorin. But, it won't cost you much more to buy 800cc injectors and map them than it would with 720's or 680's or whatever, and the larger ones give you some more headroom should you decide on more power later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy Posted June 17, 2003 Author Share Posted June 17, 2003 guys - first of all, thank you for the replies. geeza - as ever, sound advice ! LOl ... (it rained here today too!) adam/thorin - my apologies for not mentioning earlier, i kinda like the idea of twins because of that 2nd kick feeling. to be fair however, i have not been out in a single turbo MKIV, so cannot judge but the issue of lag is a big question for me. i hear it can be dialed out to a bare minimum (based on a medium single) but am not too sure. i will also stop at 550 max (how many times have we heard THAT before?) as it is the supposed limit of daily driveability on an auto but again may well be wrong here so please correct me if so. i have considered an uprated transmission but am not sure if it is cost effective in that i don't drag race or use the car on track days much. i hear leon does one as well. i thought of 680cc hks injectors as i thought it represented more than enough fueling for my plans espe. since i probably won't go beyong 550ish...might even settle for 500 if it came to that. it does look like another walbro will be needed along with the rail, injectors and ecu before the turbos are changed. i am also more after torque as opposed to outright bhp - unless i have totally missed the boat ? adam - will research the med singles and the ecu issue. i hear that mines also is a good item ? anyone else with any other thoughts/suggestions/experiences ? thanks guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorin Posted June 17, 2003 Share Posted June 17, 2003 Roy, great minds think alike! Lag is also a big issue for me, and I love the sequential nature of stock turbo's. My plan is to take things as far as possible (within reason) with hybrid turbo's. Of course when I get to that stage it's obvious that I'll then want a single Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy Posted June 17, 2003 Author Share Posted June 17, 2003 thorin - how far do you reckon one can get on hybrids - the absolute safe maximum - 500 ? no more ? this is of course assuming the other stuff is done.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorin Posted June 17, 2003 Share Posted June 17, 2003 I think 500 is a reasonable target, more than that could be possible but probably only on race fuel etc. The stock manifold is the limiting factor, and I don't know of any aftermarket ones for just hybrids. TomSid has gone to great lengths to get the best out of his hybrid setup and I believe he managed to find someone to port the stock manifold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy Posted June 17, 2003 Author Share Posted June 17, 2003 yes - i have heard the very same thing about the manifold. i also read TomSids post with interest. i guess ported manifolds are a last gasp option in terms of convenience. i wonder what the likes of leon/CW/terry/paul W etc reckon on this issue ... guys ?? if all comes to naught, might just have to stick to 500 - pity tho ... unless .... SINGLES come into the picture !! :flame Dev guess i need to check on these after all. pls keep the ideas and thoughts coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MONKEYmark Posted June 17, 2003 Share Posted June 17, 2003 justin csn get 680cc injectors that drop into the stock fuel rail. what a about a torque convertor as the auto is not the best off the line Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy Posted June 17, 2003 Author Share Posted June 17, 2003 mark - that was an idea he did run by me, sards if i recall correctly but i was wondering about the limitations of the stock rail ?? i think a torque converter is a pretty good idea but i wonder if the bang-for-the-buck quotient will be fullfilled with my kind of usage? ie no drags, not much in the way of track days etc ... if the box gives up the ghost then will probably consider it or an overall upgraded box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dude Posted June 17, 2003 Share Posted June 17, 2003 TC will make a BBBBBIIIIIIGGGGGG difference (so would a smaller driver:p ) John:flame Dev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam W Posted June 17, 2003 Share Posted June 17, 2003 From what you've said, I would *strongly* advise you not to get hung up on "chasing the numbers". Forget about how many bhp you think you want for a while and think about what you want the power curve to look like. Peak bhp figures are a small part of how good a car is to drive. Why not try and blag a ride in a singled car and a strong hybrid car and see which one is best for you? My task was made easier because I started out with a single turbo, but when picking a new turbo for mine I tried to ignore bhp figures (as difficult as it is) and picked it according to where the powerband would start. This is more important than whether you have 500, 550 or 600 bhp etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy Posted June 17, 2003 Author Share Posted June 17, 2003 dude - as ever, good advice. sadly, the smaller driver bit is going to be hard to do !! LOL .... adam - that is very good advice. i think i will do just that. i was looking for a quick reacting car - not necessarily tied to a certain bhp figure. i take your point about where the power band starts as well as that i guess will pinpoint the kind of delivery i would like. in that regard, i am more inclined toward smooth low-down torque (and lots of it). now i guess i will have to blag rides in both types. anyone willing to offer ? thanks for all the thoughts guys. anymore will be very welcome. if anyone has gone down this road and has any experiences to share - i would be grateful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted June 18, 2003 Share Posted June 18, 2003 I've gone down the hybrid twin route and I think they are great. You've got turbo 1 giving you near instant grunt low down, it's great for town/city driving and easing up to speed on motorways in 6th gear once someone has got out of your way It's not just the manifold that's the limiting factor, it's the housing of the exhaust turbines that's a big restriction as well. CW did some tests recently and it was scary apparently. One day I'll actually go and see him to get my EGT probe fitted, then I'll talk shop and find out what I can safely get away with on the power front -Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy Posted June 18, 2003 Author Share Posted June 18, 2003 ian - i am hoping to maintain the twin sequential set-up on mine as far as possible for exactly those reasons. adam made a good point about not chasing meaningless numbers but getting the kind of delivery i wanted. given that the stock engine, while tough, does have a limit at the end of the day makes this decision a bit of a juggling act. it looks like a lot more thinking / reseach and talking to knowledgeable people is on the cards. thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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