chilli Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 All this speculation, I'd trust the official figures to be more objective at the end of the day than most of whats been said here but of course you need to be able to drive to get the most out of it - kinda goes without saying really. >I think that i could change gear in a manual car quicker than the my auto box does! I agree that the manual gearbox can be shifted incredably quickly, I loose literally no power at all when shifting and there is always a perfect ratio from the 6 to be right in the power when you need it most... I can't be doing with another manual vs auto debate, I'm very happy - so should you be - autos well outnumber manuals on here anyway so I'd be fighting a lost cause. people will always argue, like the N/A is better than a TT argument I noticed starting up on this forum - where is the evidence? It's all subjective mumbo jumbo, stick to the figures and compare like for like and you can't go too far wrong. PS: I think half a second over a 1/4 mile between cars identical in all other respects is quite a lot when you think how hard it can be to shave half a second off with other mods! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyb10supra Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 I think the manual has it every time! especially around the track! accept no substitute! I'm really impressed with the j-spec set up and a manaul gearbox, it kicks arse and I'd put it up against any auto of the same spec any day of the week He he have a go with Chris Wilson around the track Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chilli Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 lol we are comparing cars not drivers here and I'm not saying I am the worlds best driver, then again nor is anyone on this forum no doubt I think I realise where this argument always falls down. What gets confused is "ease of driving" with "being faster". I'd concede that the auto is easier to drive, that doesn't make it faster though. What happens is then people dream up a scenario where the driver is the weak link, thus making the auto faster. Well in this scenario ok that maybe so, but it still doesn't make the 'car' faster. I'm convinced that the manual is quicker all else being equal, arguments indicating otherwise always boil down to the same old scenario, the driver can't drive the manual. Therefore in my mind we have several individual statements that are all true: The auto is easier to drive (a no brainer) The manual is faster (a no brainer generally, except on this forum?) The manual is only faster if the driver can drive it properly (also a no brainer) I think those 3 statements sum it up, I'd be happy to argue further on any one of them individually, this overall auto vs manual thing seems to be a bit of a waste of time lol brilliant cars whatever form they come in, if I owned an auto I'd still love it (just no as much lol) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 I've owned both. The auto accelerates quicker to roughly 100 than the manual. I'm fairly sure the book figures involved some pretty good drivers given unlimited runs with no penalty or concern for breakages. With that in mind, you can abuse a manual far more than an auto, so yes, the manual may have got a quicker time eventually, but I bet the auto had a quicker average. And yes, I now own a manual, and I love it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chilli Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 so it's slower after 100? lol problem is it's never possible to evaluate identical cars, unless you could test one and then do a transmission change on it and test again with everything else identical. I appreciate that you've got good knowledge of both though, so what made you pick a manual in the end then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soop Dogg Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 this overall auto vs manual thing seems to be a bit of a waste of time lol So stop arguing about it then! You're the one dragging it out. And it's starting to annoy me now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 Can you beat my sub 5 second 0-60 ? (See Sig) Autos are generally quicker on the quarter mile, everything else being equal. So why can't I even get into high 5s dammit? (without powerbraking obviously) Is there an equivalent of a slipping clutch on the autobox? Over 100mph it goes like the wind, hits the speedlimiter really easy (so it can't be slipping that bad, if indeed there is such a thing as autobox slippage) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chilli Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 So stop arguing about it then! You're the one dragging it out. And it's starting to annoy me now. lol I think you will find I was trying to bring a poinless argument to an end, not drag it out Sorry if you got annoyed but re-read it because I think you missed the point if thats you opinion JohnA, according to this thread it would seem that no special techniques are needed in an auto, you just get in and press the loud pedal and the car does the rest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 ... according to this thread it would seem that no special techniques are needed in an auto, you just get in and press the loud pedal and the car does the rest Not on my accelerometer it doesn't. It can do 0-100 in the 11s (just by pressing the loud pedal), so there is power to spare Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chilli Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 Sorry I was being flippant, this thread looked like it was getting all heavy for a sec On a serious note, have you a traction problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 On a serious note, have you a traction problem? A bit yes, the 0-100 times on the dry can sometimes be lower with TC ON, but I get nothing like smoking tyres, or even audible spin. If anything, the launches are undewhelming. I could do over 1second better 0-60 times on the Calibra, and I could hear all 4 tyres spin. This one is quiet:yes: , dignified:zen: and not in a rush:swear: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soop Dogg Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 lol I think you will find I was trying to bring a poinless argument to an end, not drag it out Sorry if you got annoyed but re-read it because I think you missed the point if thats you opinion JohnA, according to this thread it would seem that no special techniques are needed in an auto, you just get in and press the loud pedal and the car does the rest Didn't think I actually expressed an opinion one way or the other. It's just that this subject has been talked to death on numerous occasions and it will never get settled because people will always have their personal preference. If you want to prove your car and how great a driver you may or may not be, then just get it on the strip and get a timing slip. If you want a good idea of how one gearbox stacks up against the other, then look at the numerous performances of each type of car in the 1/4 mile times threads on this site. There is such a large spread of results on there that it should give a fairly good overall view of which is quicker if that's what you are looking for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 So why can't I even get into high 5s dammit? (without powerbraking obviously) The powerbraking is about the only thing that will get you a better a start unless you have a high stall torque converter. It does no harm to the car if you only do it for a couple seconds before launch. I guess the drivetrain can withstand a lot more torque and stress than you are making at the revs powerbraking is done at. according to this thread it would seem that no special techniques are needed in an auto, you just get in and press the loud pedal and the car does the rest Yeah, that's about it. You make it sound like the ability to press a clutch pedal and move the gear lever at the appropriate point is some great skill that mere auto drivers don't have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soop Dogg Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 Yeah, that's about it. You make it sound like the ability to press a clutch pedal and move the gear lever at the appropriate point is some great skill that mere auto drivers don't have. :snigger: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoboblio Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 You make it sound like the ability to press a clutch pedal and move the gear lever at the appropriate point is some great skill that mere auto drivers don't have. It's a problem if you're "granny shifting and not double clutching like you should" I promise never to quote from that film again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chilli Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 hehe this is quite amusing, this thread away from the original topic into pure subjectivity now lol. I'll play though It is true that I prefer cars that don't do too much driving for you. I accept that features that improve safety (ABS and TC) are necessary these days, most other things I'd rather do myself This is opinion not fact, so there is nothing to argue about here. Some people like to go by train and do nothing, this is their choice and opinion and I respect that also. At what point would you draw the line, you have 2 pedals not 3, would you like just 1? 0? hehe Those disabled cars don't have pedals do they? Seriously though, yes as you have all admitted, the manual is harder to master, this means it requires a skill, to be developed by the driver, it's something that has to be mastered, just like steering and braking - I'm all for that. Each individual part of driving in isolation is not hard to master, doesn't mean it's not a valuable skill to have. You get out of it what you're prepared to put in and it's so rewarding when you do so - this is what makes driving fun for me, take part of it away and you've taken part of the experience I enjoy so much away also. Point being, lets not argue over opinions, as the original topic question asked and the response was given, the manual 'car' is faster all else being equal but the difference is noticeable but not show stopping - so it does come down to personal preference mostly and that is just fine by me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyb10supra Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 You get out of it what you're prepared to put in I put a tank of 99 RON fuel and have a great time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chilli Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 well said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyb10supra Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 well said I can see your point if no one else can.....each to there own as I say me being a lazy bugger love the auto plenty fast enough for my needs If I ever did get crazy with the engine etc, I think I would still be glad to have the auto.....a lot of US drag supras prefer running auto tranny's, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 I put a tank of 99 RON fuel and have a great time I've gone one bit further: water mist before the compressors, and methanol mist after the i/c Makes 99RON feel like race fuel (that's what the ECU thinks at 20psi, and who am I to argue...lol... ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chilli Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 Thanks mate, I too can see the appeal of the auto for some situations each to their own and yep either way they are plenty quick enough, we need to show other cars what the supe is capable of, not battle amongst ourselves lol Edit: John, do you think there may be an issue with your auto box itself? have you compared it with an otherwise similar auto car? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJ Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 So stop arguing about it then! You're the one dragging it out. And it's starting to annoy me now. And I will give you odds on right now that the next time the question is asked, it will be Chilli (who says it is stupid arguing about such things) who will storm in and start the argument Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suprasteve Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 i'm kinda scared to ask incase this all kicks off again but are there any rally cars or *true* purpose built track racing cars with an auto box ? or even any super cars like Ferrari, Lamborghini, TVRs etc come to think of it is the supra the only *fast* jap car that comes with a choice of manual or auto? I'm on the fence here, i own a 6 sp (which i love to bits) but having been in Terribleturners auto sometimes makes me wish i'd got an auto instead. the point i'm making is surely a manual is better for a track or else wouldn't you see a lot more autos in the cars mentioned above??? before you start on me like you all did to chilli i'm not suggesting a manual is better i'm just questioning an obvious fact - feel free to put me right... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chilli Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 Thanks for that CJ lol. No, I'm done arguing about nothing now lol. I did honestly try and stop arguing and instead just express my personal opinion, to justify my viewpoint. Sorry if it didn't come across that way in the forum, I'll shut up now I still wonder about JohnA's car though, anyone got any thoughts on it? EDIT: good question suprasteve btw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 If you're stuck in traffic, the auto kicks ass If you want to squeeze the last drop of power, the manual is for you As Matt said, they're both good for what they're meant to do. Orsez for Coursez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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