Whitelightning Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 Im sure we have some aerodynamic whizzkids here I want the most aerodynamic nose to my Supra. My intention is to do a top end test on the way to (and back) to the European Supra meet on a decent German Autobahn. Once past 200mph the current setup will either end up being a ram or rip itself off at high speed. So the most areodynamic setup for me would be ? (Calculators out lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
attilauk Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 So the most areodynamic setup for me would be ? (Calculators out lol) the Top Secret GT300 Widebody has been past 200mph ok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syed Shah Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 Stock Doluck perhaps, apparently designed aero-friendly, but never seen data to prove it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitelightning Posted June 17, 2005 Author Share Posted June 17, 2005 Ah-ha, wasnt the Jun car setup for 240mph ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syed Shah Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 Yes, it was, 249mph on low boost, and had what I can only presume was a custom bumper, as it is not listed on the JUN site. If your serious about top speed, I would study the info available on that car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitelightning Posted June 17, 2005 Author Share Posted June 17, 2005 Yes, Akira, nice Supra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
attilauk Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 the jun car pre custom nose job was capable of over 200mph too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLicense Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 Aerodynamic.... hmmmm. Exactly what do you want? More downforce or less drag or the moon on a stick (Both!) Now I don't work for a "bodykit" company, but I would be willing to bet the mortgage that not one of the available bodykit's (possibly with the exception of the TRD kit) has ever been anywhere near a wind tunnel, or had any serious amount of CFD analysis performed on it. My personal opinion is that you REALLY don't want a street-car that has positive downforce. It's too danegerous. (Seriously... you don't want it) So that kind of leaves you with less drag. The bumper with the least drag would completely do away with the inlet to the radiator. However, you'll soon find things will warm up fairly quickly without this. So that kind of leaves you with a compromise of sorts. As compromises go, the one that's probably had the most analysis would be the stock set-up (probably not what you want to hear, but that's just how it is) Next I would go for the TRD kit, (as TRD are probably the only company that's selling kits that have the cash to be aero-testing the kit they sell) after that, IMHO with regards to aero efficiency, all the other kits are junk. I also would stay away from anything that has these little canards (Vortex generators), as they can be a very powerful tool, at either generating or destroying drag/downforce. Which it happens to be on these bumpers, is all guess work. They're put on their for cosmetic reasons, with no regard to what they're actually doing to the flow. You can spend many hours in a wind tunnel pissing about with these things trying to get them to work to your benefit. (Believe me the number of these things I've designed that have ended up as scrap is shocking!) Sorry to make it all sound as depressing as that, but as I said, that's the way it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbeh Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 Agree with him ^ Stock or something designed by Toyota will give u a good chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kosmic Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 Aerodynamic.... hmmmm. Exactly what do you want? More downforce or less drag or the moon on a stick (Both!) Now I don't work for a "bodykit" company, but I would be willing to bet the mortgage that not one of the available bodykit's (possibly with the exception of the TRD kit) has ever been anywhere near a wind tunnel, or had any serious amount of CFD analysis performed on it. My personal opinion is that you REALLY don't want a street-car that has positive downforce. It's too danegerous. (Seriously... you don't want it) So that kind of leaves you with less drag. The bumper with the least drag would completely do away with the inlet to the radiator. However, you'll soon find things will warm up fairly quickly without this. So that kind of leaves you with a compromise of sorts. As compromises go, the one that's probably had the most analysis would be the stock set-up (probably not what you want to hear, but that's just how it is) Next I would go for the TRD kit, (as TRD are probably the only company that's selling kits that have the cash to be aero-testing the kit they sell) after that, IMHO with regards to aero efficiency, all the other kits are junk. I also would stay away from anything that has these little canards (Vortex generators), as they can be a very powerful tool, at either generating or destroying drag/downforce. Which it happens to be on these bumpers, is all guess work. They're put on their for cosmetic reasons, with no regard to what they're actually doing to the flow. You can spend many hours in a wind tunnel pissing about with these things trying to get them to work to your benefit. (Believe me the number of these things I've designed that have ended up as scrap is shocking!) Sorry to make it all sound as depressing as that, but as I said, that's the way it is. Spot on...taken from the guy who does Williams F1 bodywork etc (is that right T??) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRD3000GT Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 The Do-Luck has been wind tunnel tested and designed for speeds around 200MPH That is why the skirts and the rear are subtle and they do away with the rear brake ducts.. trying to make the car as stream line as possible.. If I was considering high speed runs I would personally want. Top Secret TRD Do-Luck Jun Dont think I would really trust any of the others ! Possibility of making a custom AKIRA front bumper? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 IIRC the Stillen front and sides have been wind tunnel tested. Ian, the car will do 200 with that front on, if you are worried take the aluminium under tray off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRD3000GT Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 just a few shots of the Arira bumper.. We have 2 old bumpers sitting at GVN which would be a base to start working on a custom made front end if you want to go that route... http://www.after-image.net/cars/images/2001junakirasupra.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerotop Dave Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 Just to be boring for a second - Looking at that picture it looks like the top speed run was done on salt flats or something? Are you really gonna push it up to 200mph on a road? There's lots more to hit, and there's some obvious question marks over considering other people's safety. I wouldn't want to pull out to overtake a lorry at 50mph with you bearing down on me at a closing speed of 150mph... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJI Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 For top speed - less drag setups you have to be looking at front nose cones which have the smallest gaps at the front. ie. as smooth as you can get. This will have to be balanced at the rear end so that your car doesn't start to pitch when you pick up speed. Whereby your rear end is providing downforce causing the front end to pitch up. If you get too much pitch up at the front then you'll get +ve air pressure under the front end of the car and you've no doubt seen what happens in this situation. eg. LeMans - Mercedes GT1 - when both cars with the same problem of front end air pressure build up caused the car to flip into the forestry. I did aerodynamics at uni and you may be surprised to hear that most cars actually create lift at high speed. (not near enough to hold the cars weight though). Problem with having a nice smooth front end is that you restrict air into the engine intakes. But the rear of the car is just as important drag wise as the front. To build the perfect top speed car, you'll have to do some wind tuneel testing/experimentation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLicense Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 The Do-Luck has been wind tunnel tested and designed for speeds around 200MPH IIRC the Stillen front and sides have been wind tunnel tested [/Quote] I don't believe either of these points, not for 1 second. In 1998 I ran a 40% scale windtunnel that was rented to various motorsport teams. The hourly rate was £3500/hour. You can then double to tripple to cost of actually hiring the tunnel in manufacturing the parts that your going to test. So say 1 days test programme is going to cost you approx £100K. But then you've got to actually build a wind tunnnel model of a Supra to bolt the parts your making onto. 1 wind tunnel model for us would cost somewhere in the region of £500-700K. Now we do some trick stuff with ours so I recon you could probably take a third of that. Say £150-250K for building a basic model. Now there's no way you could optimise an item such as a nosecone on a Supra in a day. Probably more like a week or two. Let's give them the benefit of the doubt. 7 days x 100K +150K (initial model build). = £850K. Now divide that by the cost of a nosecone (About £800) you get 1000 odd nosecones have to be made at zero manufacturing cost, and sold. Now I read that there were only 12000 Mkiv Supra's ever made, which means that they would need a 10% market share. Now I know that Do-Luck and Stillen, are well respected names in this industry, but can anyone seriously see them spending anything like the kind of money to do the testing alone. I just can't see it. The cost is just too prohibitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 Tony, only what I gathered from their web site years ago, have no proof, but remember Stillen are a race team too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRD3000GT Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 I was just going off what I was told / read as well.. I understand your maths but surely it is possible to get in a wind tunnel for significantly less than you have stated! I just dont beleive the numbers. Sure a wind tunnel for an F1 team may cost that ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kosmic Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 To get accurate/worthwhile results you normally need a big a windtunnel as possible...correct me if im wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLicense Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 I was just going off what I was told / read as well.. I understand your maths but surely it is possible to get in a wind tunnel for significantly less than you have stated! I just dont beleive the numbers. Sure a wind tunnel for an F1 team may cost that ! I know what your saying, also bear in mind that the old Jordan tunnel was in no way "state of the art" in fact it's getting close to 20 years old nowadays. The cost of running the tunnels at WGP, would be a great deal more than that. If it could be done cheaper though, it would be done cheaper. Why would anyone pay those kind of costs if they could go somewhere else to test for less? Wiindtunnels for this kind of work area just massively costly, and as such the cost for 1 hours worth of tunnel time is proportionately as expensive. There are only a handfull of windtunnels in the world that are suitable for this kind of testing, and aren't private. Southampton Uni, Swift in california, Jordan (altough not anymore). There's a couple of smaller ones, but none that I would want to design a race car in, let alone a component that is going to be used on a road going car. I understand that Stillen are a race team, so I would seriously doubt they would be spending time developing nose-cones for a road going Supra in their wind tunnel. Tunnel time is THE most valuable asset a modern race team has. Many more times so than track time. Don't think that just because you've got a nosecone for a race going JGTC Supra you can put it on a road car and have the same effects/benefits. For a starters I should imagine, if JGTC cars are anything like the older BTCC cars I used to work with, they have very little at all similar in terms of bodywork, with a road going car. I just can't see how they could afford to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLicense Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 To get accurate/worthwhile results you normally need a big a windtunnel as possible...correct me if im wrong. Big or pressurised. It's all to do with the Reynolds number, and blockage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted June 18, 2005 Share Posted June 18, 2005 Listen to Tony guys, I'd bet money on the stock setup being the only one that has seen a windtunnel (for any meaningful testing, that is!) There are a few video clips around of cars flipping over at 200+ runs, even at the salts. I think I've got one with an RX7 on my hard disk somewhere. Scary... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitelightning Posted June 28, 2005 Author Share Posted June 28, 2005 Strewth. Wind tunnel ? Yeah ok lol ! Tell you what, I will drive to Germany (As part of the European Supra Meet trip we are doing) and when I get on an autobahn I will floor it. Then it will cost me the price of the petrol, all being well. If things go wrong, it may cost me more, but who wants to live forever I think the front faring will rip itself off long before 200mph+ anyway ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRD3000GT Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 Strewth. Wind tunnel ? Yeah ok lol ! Tell you what, I will drive to Germany (As part of the European Supra Meet trip we are doing) and when I get on an autobahn I will floor it. Then it will cost me the price of the petrol, all being well. If things go wrong, it may cost me more, but who wants to live forever I think the front faring will rip itself off long before 200mph+ anyway ! Why do you think that? Is the whifbitz that thin / weak ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suprasteve Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 excuse me for butting in but does the CRD supra have a standard nose cone with a few holes drilled out ? whats the problem ? why wouldn't a standard nose cone hold together ? Top Speed Times 1.25 Miles Elvington 01. 201.4 mph CRD supra (T6) JAP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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