AndrewIV Posted June 8, 2005 Share Posted June 8, 2005 Ok I have a 93.5 mkiv na and I have been doing performance modifications to it for about a year now. That includes exhaust, intake, ignition and the like. I was considering a turbo but thats taking the easy way out. I want to make decent power with natural aspiration. I have really been thinking of converting to individual throttle bodies but I cannot find a company that would make a set for the 2jzge. Does anyone know of a company that makes them? second, I would like to increase my compression and build the engine to withstand above average revs. Does anyone know of a company that would make high compression pistons for this engine? What is a good redline to shoot for with this sort of na setup? Any and all responses will be apreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Posted June 8, 2005 Share Posted June 8, 2005 There was a group buy recently for a SS exhast manifold that was supposed to help increase HP. The other way of increasing HP would be to bin the induction kit and put the stock box back on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitesupraboy2 Posted June 8, 2005 Share Posted June 8, 2005 yeh that manifold was meant to add around 18hp i swear it had on there...which aint a bad gain! and was a good price Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason m Posted June 8, 2005 Share Posted June 8, 2005 Try Chris Wilson - he seems to know about all things Supra... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewIV Posted June 8, 2005 Author Share Posted June 8, 2005 I found the header you are talking about i plan to order it shortly. I know for the 2jzge vvti in the american lexus is300 it has a proven hp gain between 13 to 18 hp. I have also found 2 intake plenums that are supposed to give good gains in power to. What I am looking to do will not be found from any manufacturer. I personally have not heard of any high performace (above 300ps) supra mkvi nas. If anyone has please tell me. I got my idea from a certain skyline its turbo but the idea is about the same, make a plenum around 6 throttle bodies and air horns and run a large high flow air filter. It should be good for throttle response. The high rev is where I plan to make my power. I have found a set of ferrea dual spring valvesprings,polished valves, and titanium retainers for a good price and on top of this I plan to build my bottom end. I want to shoot for 8500rpm redline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 Try THIS PLACE they list a lot of parts for the 2JZGE engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loks Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 Good find Nic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 ...I was considering a turbo but thats taking the easy way out. .... !? Obviously you haven't seen the list of what's involved to do it properly Bang per buck, you can't beat a good nitrous installation (try the forum at Wizards of NOS for specific ideas from the pros) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digsy Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 I think he means that adding a turbo is a relatively easy way to get more power from an engine. Yeah, you need a fair few bits but they are mostly bolted onto the outside. In engineering terms, I'd say that yes, it is easier. Making a high-output NA engine without resorting to tricks like nitrous is still relatively difficult, and the bangs per buck of adding technology like variable intake systems and VVTi or VVTLi (to use the Toyota terms for cam phasing and cam switching) are far smaller than uppin gthe boost on your TT or bolting on a big single. I think that very few people are going to crow about the extra 30hp that their four-figure intake and exhaust system added to their NA, when the turbo guys can do the same by pressing a few buttons on their boost controller. OK, I'm oversimplifying a bit, but you can see where I'm coing from. Anyway, IMHO if you want big power from an NA revving it high is the best way to go, but you will need a complete top and bottom end rebuild to do it safely and reliably. All the moving parts (valves, buckets, rods, pistons) will need to be consideably lightened to keep the same loads in the engine. Inertia loads increase by the square of the engine speed increase, so if you go from 7000 to 8500 (13% increase) you will need to try to lighten the reciprocating parts by 28% (because 1.13 sqared is 1.28). If you cannot lighten everything up by this amount, then you will need to beef things up. Stiffer valve strings as you have already mentioned to keep the valves under cotrol - especially as you will probably end up running crazy profiles to get the air into the engine at high speed, a stronger rod and very importantly stronger rod bolts. Unfortunately one area you can do very little with is the engine's lubrication. The geometry of the main and big end bearings is pretty much fixed. If you go the whole hog and stick a new crankshaft in it might be worth investigating whether you can increase the size of the big end journals. Making them longer would be better, but failing that an increase in diameter cannot hurt as it gives more bearing surface and increaes the overlap between mains and crankpin, thus making the crank strongest at its traditionally weakest point. Don't forget that if you start running much stiffer valve springs, then you will increase the wear on the valve buckets as well. Assuming you manage to get a load of top end power, you might find that the low-down torque has suffered. We are getting into wish list territory here, but it might be worth investigating whether a head from a VVTi TT would fit on the NA short block. That would at least let you play with the cam phasing to win some of the midrange back. if you are looking at getting someone to make throttle valve assemblies for you then you could even look at a cheap and cheerful variable length intake manifold. These are all the sorts of things that OEMs will look at when trying to up the power of an NA engine. Finally, once you have your howling top-end power monster running, contact Visteon and ask them about their VTES device. It's an electrivally driven centrifugal compressor. Forget about the Max Power PC cooling fans - these things are the real deal and they give appreciable benefits in the low to mid range torque region. So there you go, those are my ideas: Strong and lightweight bits to let you rev it high, optimise the tuning for top end and then use variable geometry for the midrange, then use a bolt-on electronic gizmo to beef up the very bottom. The price and effort? Astronomical! So by comparison, yeah, a turbo is easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeordieSteve Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 Get some cold concrete seats... they'll give you a bad ass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 Nice post Digsy Good info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 ...Yeah, you need a fair few bits but they are mostly bolted onto the outside. ... lower comp pistons are mostly bolted onto the inside, are they not? I don't see how a proper turbo conversion (with mapping, cams etc) can be classified as cheap or easy. There are low-blow supercharger conversions that can be termed as 'easy' perhaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyefi Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 stick a 5L v8 in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digsy Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 lower comp pistons are mostly bolted onto the inside, are they not? I don't see how a proper turbo conversion (with mapping, cams etc) can be classified as cheap or easy. There are low-blow supercharger conversions that can be termed as 'easy' perhaps.Look at it this way: There's a fair few people on here who can and have tackled serious upgrades using bolt-on or replacement parts using little more than what you have available in your average garage, the info on this board, the nearest dual carriageway as a tesing ground and a couple of mates for assistance, with maybe a total budget of £5K - on a turbocharged car - ending up with somewhere in the region of 500bhp. Now compare that to the effort you would have to put in doing what I described above, just to get over the magic 100bhp / litre out of an NA. Yes, pistons go on the inside, but in real terms it isn't that hard to swap them out if you really want to? No. I wouldn't want to do it, but at the end of the day its just taking one part out and putting another one in its place. You could make a car with a 8500 redline that would probably last a while on largely stock internals, or swapped out valvetrain and a lightened and strenghtned bottom end, but if you want to make the most of the extra revs you will end up screwing the mid range unless you introduce some kind of variable geometry, either on the cams or the intake system. That kind of thing simply isn't available off the shelf, but its where the secrets of having a true high performance NA engine are. Almost all NA engines have some variable geometry technology on them these days. It's my view that if you really want a high power NA then you are leaving the realms of homegrown tuning and getting into actually re-engineering the engine into something other than what it was originally designed to be, which is probably why most people advise going the turbo route if you are chasing big power figures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Walker Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 Good posts Digsy Gaz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 Very true indeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 NA pistons survive turbo charging, you just keep the pressure's down. Stock blocked NA-T's run 10's in the States. NA's are very hard to tune to gain noticable improvements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Pink Lady Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 From personal experience you will spend a fortune tuning your N/A and I should know If you are after tuning value then Nitrous is the cheapest option. If big power is your aim turbo charging is the way forward. But if you have a partner who does not mind you spending their money spend away. Mandy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewIV Posted June 11, 2005 Author Share Posted June 11, 2005 Thanks alot, that really points me in the right direction with upgrades. Oh and one more question about increasing the revs. Is there a performance exhaust cam for the NA supra? I know the intake cam is the same as the turbo but since the NA has a distributer the gear isnt there on the TT exhaust cam. I had one more idea about the revs, the 1jz has a shorter stroke which would lend itself to higher revs. would it be possible to install a 2jz head on a 1jz block and hook this up to the tranny originally installed in the supra? Thanks for all the help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewIV Posted June 12, 2005 Author Share Posted June 12, 2005 Oh yeah and about the partner being ok with the money, my gf loves to go fast so whenever I do something to my car all I have to do to convince her its worth it is let her drive around a bit. Not that this has much or anything to do with it at all. Just thought I would say it for the heck of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRD3000GT Posted June 12, 2005 Share Posted June 12, 2005 ' badass and.. na ' never seen those two words associated together Joke, Im just winding you guys up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adi2009 Posted June 12, 2005 Share Posted June 12, 2005 Hi, i havent read all the posts but hope i m not gonna repeat things. anyways here goes: if you can get hold of good fuel, have the cylinder head phased (there are other ways of increasing compression but i dont want to get into all that) so that you can up the compression from 10:1 to 10.5:1, get some aftermarket cams, Port and polish the head, get a good inlet manifold. And additional to this u can do the whole list from pistons to valve springs, con-rods etc etc etc... Oh and after all this you will definately need some sort of ignition and fuel contolling device, im guessing AEM. I've done the followin on a carburreted NA engine but not on a fuel injected car so not sure what sort of electronics exactly u r gonna need. cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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