htpc gurus

[DamanC]

After moving house I think I can now justify getting round to building that HTPC I have been thinking about.

 

I want to use it for the following

• Watching freeview
  
• Watching DIVX Movies
  
• Watching HD Movies
  
• Decent audio
  
• Faily easy to use for the missus
  

 

I currently have a 32" LCD HDTV with more inputs than you can shake a stick at. And the following PC;

 

P4 (478) 2.8GHZ

1GB RAM

Plenty of storage

On board VGA

 

Now I want to add some toys to this, my shopping list consists of

Creative SoundBlaster X-Fi Xtreme Audio Soundcard

Logitech Z-5500 5.1 Speakers 505W RMS - THX Certified

Antec Fusion V2 MATX MediaCenter Case

The freeview jumps out of sync on the TV, so compro VideoMate S350 DVB-S Tuner PCI Card

 

Now I am fairly sure the sound card and speakers will go nicely together, so Im not concerned about them.

 

One of the things I am not sure about is the DVB-S Tuner card. All I simply want to do is receive freeview channels, unless there is something else I am missing out on and I dont know about? Is it upto the job?

 

Lastly, I want a remote to control the whole lot. I looked at the Microsoft one which looks a bit, naff.

 

I would like a Logitech Harmony 525. Im guessing I could just buy a cheapy media remote use the receiver and then train the harmony?

 

As for software I have found MediaPortal to be rather resorce hungry, and given im not useing the most powerful PC behind it, I was going to simply use XP MCE with VLC Player and H.264 Codec. Sound like a plan?

 

Any Pointers/advice or answers to the questions appreciated.

[JustGav]

I'll go over the other bits in detail in a sec, but tuner card wise, you CAN NOT beat this one.

 

http://shop.blackgold.tv/product/3540.html

[DamanC]

I'll go over the other bits in detail in a sec, but tuner card wise, you CAN NOT beat this one.

 

http://shop.blackgold.tv/product/3540.html

 

Just the man, I thought you would appear. I have read back some of your old threads, you rave about that card but its nearly £100. It wasn't really what I was looking to spend, what does it do the other one does not?

[Conrad]

I'm also in the process of building a HTPC, have been for about 3 months but keep forgetting about it!

 

I too have the Antec Fusion case, have you actually seen one in the flesh Damon? I only ask as I was quite surprised at it's size.

 

Maybe that's down to my unrealistic expectations on size, but I was a little disappointed by how big it was.

[DamanC]

Yeah, I have seen a few now. I like big, lots of air to flow with those 120mm fans and I have room for it. Plenty of room for expandability too. Only draw back is they are alot of money. If you don't want yours conrad, give me a shout

[Muffleman]

I'll go over the other bits in detail in a sec, but tuner card wise, you CAN NOT beat this one.

 

http://shop.blackgold.tv/product/3540.html

 

Ordered mine last night so will report back on if it's any good

[AlexM]

I use a Nova-T 500, it's not the best if you have a weak signal but after upgrading my aerial it's brilliant - record and watch or watch two channels at once (via extenders) and it's really not that expensive.

 

The Antec NSK 2480 is a good (cheaper) alternative to the Fusion V2, same chassis but no lcd/dial on the front (neither of which I personally like).

 

Have you considered whether or not the onboard graphics will do the necessary resolution(s) to get the best from your LCDTV? If you're using VGA can it do 1360x768? It might be worth picking up a GeForce 8500 based card to give you the HDMI out and 720p/1080i/1080p options. This would also give you hardware decoding if watching HD DVD / Blu-ray discs.

 

Have you tested your 2.8Ghz P4 with 720p/1080p HD files? (Sorry if I'm asking the obvious, worth making sure first though) - It might be worth going for a new do-it-all matx board with decent onboard sound / video options and a faster newer chip. There are several options with HDMI onboard.

 

I use the Microsoft MCE remote - it's not bad at all. The keys are backlit, buttons have a good feel and it does the job perfectly well.

 

The UI on Vista media centre is brilliant - far preferable to XP. Worth giving it a test out before you decide what you're doing. MediaPortal I found to require a lot of tweaking - not wife friendly, and MythTV just lost me in the setup process (I'm not a linux bod by any stretch of the imagination!).

 

If you're going to be using this box for recording TV it's worth giving webguide a look when you've got setup. I have it setup on a 24/7 server and just login and schedule recordings whenever I remember they're on, useful for when someone mentions a program at work that I just know I'd forget before I got home!

[JustGav]

Just the man, I thought you would appear. I have read back some of your old threads, you rave about that card but its nearly £100. It wasn't really what I was looking to spend, what does it do the other one does not?

 

It is one of the few cards to support DVB-S2 which is required for HD freesat. It is also fully supported by MS. The other cards are around the £60 mark and don't contain half the features. It really is an all signing and dancing card.

 

As far as hardware goes, the PC doesn't need to be super powerful, I use an E6750 and it barely tickles it it. Don't over spend on the hardware as you don't need it. HTPC's need a lot of diskspace really.

 

Mine is using an onboard VGA and it runs HD just fine

 

There we go, wanted to save post 12000 for something decent and not inane drivel

[Scott]

I have a mediacenter at the moment, built it a couple of years ago. I'm running a 3.4p4 HT processor with 2gb of ram on a crappy motherboard with onboard VGA and a 250gb hdd. One of the things i would highly recommend is setting up a share on a PC with a lot more space so that you can store all your stuff on it and connect wirelessly. I have 2tb of space on my PC upstairs and i keep almost everything on it. I have a mediacenter in my bedroom (absolute shed of a pc) that accesses the stuff too so saves any duplication. My PC upstairs is on 24/7 anyway so causes less fuss.

 

The one i have just now

http://www.cnet.co.uk/i/c/blg/cat/desktops/elonex_artisan.jpg

 

In the next year or so i'm upgrading to an AOpen minipc. Going to run me about £500 though, but it looks the nuts.

 

its a bit small lol

http://www.mediacomputing.co.uk/assets/images/aopen_945VXR__WinCE_.jpg

[DamanC]

I use a Nova-T 500, it's not the best if you have a weak signal but after upgrading my aerial it's brilliant - record and watch or watch two channels at once (via extenders) and it's really not that expensive.

 

Hi Alex, thanks for your time. Out of interest, what advantage does the Nova-t 500 have over the one linked?

The Antec NSK 2480 is a good (cheaper) alternative to the Fusion V2, same chassis but no lcd/dial on the front (neither of which I personally like).

 

That was the other case I am considering, the same minus the fancy bits and cheaper.

 

Have you considered whether or not the onboard graphics will do the necessary resolution(s) to get the best from your LCDTV? If you're using VGA can it do 1360x768? It might be worth picking up a GeForce 8500 based card to give you the HDMI out and 720p/1080i/1080p options. This would also give you hardware decoding if watching HD DVD / Blu-ray discs.

 

Guess what Ill be testing tonight

 

Regarding HD DVD and Blu-ray disks, they wont be comming anywhere near the system for some time.

 

Have you tested your 2.8Ghz P4 with 720p/1080p HD files? (Sorry if I'm asking the obvious, worth making sure first though) - It might be worth going for a new do-it-all matx board with decent onboard sound / video options and a faster newer chip. There are several options with HDMI onboard.

 

Will be testing tonight

 

I use the Microsoft MCE remote - it's not bad at all. The keys are backlit, buttons have a good feel and it does the job perfectly well.

 

It does look ok. I Think ill get one to start.

 

The UI on Vista media centre is brilliant - far preferable to XP. Worth giving it a test out before you decide what you're doing. MediaPortal I found to require a lot of tweaking - not wife friendly, and MythTV just lost me in the setup process (I'm not a linux bod by any stretch of the imagination!).

 

I have considered VMC, but due to the lower spec machine I am going to use, it is probaly going to be somewhat slower.

 

If you're going to be using this box for recording TV it's worth giving webguide a look when you've got setup. I have it setup on a 24/7 server and just login and schedule recordings whenever I remember they're on, useful for when someone mentions a program at work that I just know I'd forget before I got home!

 

Ok noted, something for a later date. Appreciate the advice buddy

 

It is one of the few cards to support DVB-S2 which is required for HD freesat. It is also fully supported by MS. The other cards are around the £60 mark and don't contain half the features. It really is an all signing and dancing card.

 

So i can watch HD freesat (HD freeview?) So I can watch HD channels via my aerial free of charge? As where the other two cards mentioned in the thread wont allow me to do that?

 

As far as hardware goes, the PC doesn't need to be super powerful, I use an E6750 and it barely tickles it it. Don't over spend on the hardware as you don't need it. HTPC's need a lot of diskspace really.

 

Mine is using an onboard VGA and it runs HD just fine

 

There we go, wanted to save post 12000 for something decent and not inane drivel

 

Drivel is your middle name sir

 

I have a mediacenter at the moment, built it a couple of years ago. I'm running a 3.4p4 HT processor with 2gb of ram on a crappy motherboard with onboard VGA and a 250gb hdd. One of the things i would highly recommend is setting up a share on a PC with a lot more space so that you can store all your stuff on it and connect wirelessly. I have 2tb of space on my PC upstairs and i keep almost everything on it. I have a mediacenter in my bedroom (absolute shed of a pc) that accesses the stuff too so saves any duplication. My PC upstairs is on 24/7 anyway so causes less fuss.

 

The one i have just now

http://www.cnet.co.uk/i/c/blg/cat/desktops/elonex_artisan.jpg

 

In the next year or so i'm upgrading to an AOpen minipc. Going to run me about £500 though, but it looks the nuts.

 

its a bit small lol

http://www.mediacomputing.co.uk/assets/images/aopen_945VXR__WinCE_.jpg

The media PC is going to be the 'share' PC.

[JustGav]

Drivel my arse

 

Can't be bothered to quote and sort out the above post

 

Case wise, doesn't really matter what you pick, bigger cases uses bigger 120mm fans which means they are quieter. I've got the antec fusion which does the job, might be big but there isn't a lot of space, it NEEDS a matx motherboard, only has two HDD carriers (although you can put one in the another place). Muffleman found a nice one on aria for +-£20 which is great as a starting point.

 

Motherboard wise, here is the little thing, sure the HDMI's are good for what you need, I run the fatal1yt 190HD board which has HDMI output, BUT and here is the cracker, if your telly has a VGA input, you might as well use that in the mean time, resolution is the same, sure it doesn't push audio up the HDMI and the blacks are a little greyier (Although I challenge people to see the difference). That will save you getting a video card in the mean time. Also remember you don't need to get the latest greatest DX10 card because you are displaying a 2d compressed image and all the enhancements aren't going to make diddly squat difference, and this includes all these fancy ati/nvidia MPEG4 acceleration bits and stuff (yes they do kick in, but not enough to make a difference IMHO and in testing).

 

Sound wise, go with what ever you have, most motherboards do at least 5.1 nowadays anyway.

 

Software wise, VMCE is currently my favourite, but it does have a slightly higher performance issue, mediaportal is fantastic for the cost *grin*

 

Tuner wise, the BGA card is the all bells and whistles one, and while it is slightly more expensive, it is a one off purchase that will give you everything, I did say freeSAT and not freeview, I've not looked into HD freeview as they haven't really made much noise about it yet.

 

Remote wise, the microsoft remote is one of the nicest going once you get the hang of it. I picked mine up from ebay for £20.

 

My E6750/HD-190/4GB ran so well as the media centre, I integrated the 'sharing' pc side of it with it, total of 6TB space (raid 0+1) with 1G NIC's. It can happily stream to the 4 xboxes, the philips streamium as well as the media centre in kitchen, and all this while watching a 720p HD mkv file on the telly without so much as a blip and the CPU running at 15% with disk access at 20%.

 

Matt's (Muffleman) case - http://www.aria.co.uk/Products/Components/Cases/Desktop/Arianet+Synergy+HTPC+Media+Centre+Case+?productId=32170 (Have a word with him re quality, as he has just put a HTPC together after loaning my spare one and loved it)

 

Have you check your cheap-ass compro card is supported by windows media centre? Remember MCE (Both XP and Vista) require that the card does MPEG2 compression on the card, hauppauge get around it by using a software mepeg2 encoder with the associated processor usage (which isn't too bad, my system more than happily copes with it, even on the fly)

[DamanC]

I wont quote it as there is a sh1te load of info there

 

You have basically confirmed my thoughts. Only thing I am left with is this tuner card thing.

 

Free sat looks nice. If I use free sat, does it basically replace freeview? I have a sky dish on the house, is it possible to use that to recieve freesat broadcasting? Is there a cost?

 

Sorry for all the questions, my past experiance of home entertainment consisted of and old TV with a set top ariel plugged in

[JustGav]

Free sat looks nice. If I use free sat, does it basically replace freeview? I have a sky dish on the house, is it possible to use that to recieve freesat broadcasting? Is there a cost?

 

Freesat will come down the sky dish just fine , in fact you are one step ahead of me as I've not got my dish yet

 

Fire away with the questions any time, and if you find something better let us know, all part of the learning!

[AlexM]

If you've got a dish up then go for Freesat, the quality should be better and there are some HD channels. I -think- it's missing Channel 4 & 5, so you'd probably need to keep Freeview as well. I haven't researched it too much as I didn't want a dish stuck on the side of the house!

 

Motherboard wise, here is the... *snip* That will save you getting a video card in the mean time.

 

I'm not sure if that is in reply to my recommendation or not, but most of the older Intel/SiS based boards with onboard graphics did not allow custom resolutions - making 1360x768/1280x720/1920x1080 unusable. It could be worth the upgrade, especially with a reasonable mid-range board/chip/2gb ram costing peanuts nowadays (along with more processing power, less heat, etc). I'm guessing you have a 1366x768 panel Daman? (What TV / Motherboard is it?)

 

 

I'm not sure how interested you'd be, but if you fancy a more unique case have a poke through Specialtech's selection (You usually have to check their forum for incoming stock, most cases sell out quickly).

[JustGav]

If you've got a dish up then go for Freesat, the quality should be better and there are some HD channels. I -think- it's missing Channel 4 & 5, so you'd probably need to keep Freeview as well. I haven't researched it too much as I didn't want a dish stuck on the side of the house!

http://www.freesat.co.uk/index.php?page=whatson.Main

 

You may be right about 5, I believe 4 is there, (Just had a quick look since I'm in a meeting )

 

I'm not sure if that is in reply to my recommendation or not, but most of the older Intel/SiS based boards with onboard graphics did not allow custom resolutions - making 1360x768/1280x720/1920x1080 unusable. It could be worth the upgrade, especially with a reasonable mid-range board/chip/2gb ram costing peanuts nowadays (along with more processing power, less heat, etc). I'm guessing you have a 1366x768 panel Daman? (What TV / Motherboard is it?)

 

Ah sorry, no, wasn't having a go, was just saying that some of the onboards are good, but not the REALLY old ones

[DamanC]

Update. I sat the 32" in the front room and It looked lost. I can see a 42" coming into play.

 

Regarding the current media PC, the current card does not have the facility to set custom resolutions 1360x728 looks bobbins, so had it running at 1024x768. The new TV im eyeing up is native at 1920x1080 so i can either bang a card in there that I have kicking about or I have some motherboards with Intel Extreme Graphics 2 chips on which I believe do support funny resolutions.

 

Have not had the chance to play with HD on it yet, it just crash's the video driver but that could be because the current card isn't upto the job? Or I haven't the right codec's, i need to spend more time playing.

 

Alex - future TV, current TV(which I am impressed with, its just perhaps a little small and the freeview sync is bobbins)

[AlexM]

Have not had the chance to play with HD on it yet, it just crash's the video driver but that could be because the current card isn't upto the job? Or I haven't the right codec's, i need to spend more time playing.

 

It shouldn't do that, unless there's a problem with the video driver. So far as codecs go, I use CCCP and it does everything I need, K-lite codec pack is a good alternative (installer can try and install some junk though so remember to check).

 

Alex - future TV, current TV(which I am impressed with, its just perhaps a little small and the freeview sync is bobbins)

 

I can't actually see any bad feedback for that, apart from a couple of posts about backlight bleed - not bad for the price!

[Scott]

I don't go near codec packs anymore, i just don't trust them. I used CCCP for a while but started getting conflicts with certain things in vista mediacenter. Now i just install divx and H.264 and it works a treat. Oh, i also install an AC3 filter. Haven't came accross anything that i struggle to play. If i do have any hassle though i have VLC installed, even though its not the best frontend it would play a digestive biscuit if you put one in the DVD player.

[DamanC]

*takes everything in*

 

Tonights plan: pop a half decent video card in the test rig and set a custon display of 1366x768. Test Divx and HD content.

[Conrad]

Ooh, I love these kind if threads!

 

I have no idea what any of this stuff means but it makes me feel comfortable knowing other people do. I've never even built a PC before, this HTPC I'm doing is my first....

 

Only need my CPU and memory now, got everything else already!

[DamanC]

Update

 

1360 x 768 set. On the current 32" its scalled correctly

 

Popped MCE 2005 on another disk installed Core Player, CORE AVC Pro, AC3 Audio filter and away I went. Looked great, just like I had when I was running it of my meaty rig when It was in my old room. However.......as always. The CPU is almost maxed out (75%-100%) when im throwing sample HD files at it. (MKV's). Not tried DIVX yet but suspect it will be lower. As a result, there is a little tearing and a drop in frame rate

 

I rigged up another rig, same spec but slapped in a Nvidia 5200FX (other rig didn't have AGP slot). Now this rig has had a combo of codecs on it and as a result the HD samples are now really grainey

 

Im going to whop another disk in it, install MCE 2005 from scratch tonight and see what result I get. Should the P4 478 2.8Ghz be maxing like that?

[Scott]

 

Im going to whop another disk in it, install MCE 2005 from scratch tonight and see what result I get. Should the P4 478 2.8Ghz be maxing like that?

 

Nowhere near it to be honest. My CPU runs about 40% when playing MKV files. Its a 3.4 though.

 

My wifes laptop is a 3.0, mine is a 3.2 and they can both handle MKV no problem.

[DamanC]

Are yours 478 socket scott?

[Scott]

Are yours 478 socket scott?

 

My main Mediacenter is yeah, not sure what the laptop ones are.

[JustGav]

Shouldn't be hitting it that hard, as I've said in the past my E6750 only runs at 15-20% when playing;

 

1. HD MKV file 720p

2. Streaming an avi to 4 xboxes (via SMB share, each playing a different movie, so more of a network/disk thrash, usual 700mb divx movie)

3. Streaming to upnp device (700mb divx movie)

4. Laptop file copy via the wireless to the disc.

 

So yeah, a 3.4 should be around the 40% mark if I had to hazard a guess.